>> VOTER TURNOUT LOOMS VERY LARGE.

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> >> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD. "

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

ALL LEGACIES COME DOWN TO TURNOUT.

BOW WHO COMES OUT TO VOTE FOR THEIR CANDIDATE REALLY MATTERS IN THIS TURBULENT MIDTERM ELECTION.

VOTERS DON'T LINING THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING.

THAT'S USUALLY BAD NEWS FOR THE PARTY IN POWER.

THIS YEAR THE REPUBLICANS.

DO DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES OFFER ENOUGH OF A CHANGE TO MOTIVATE THEIR SUPPORTERS AND SWAY INDEPENDENTS?

WE WILL LEARN THE ANSWER TO THOSE QUESTIONS IN ABOUT TWO WEEKS.

TO ENERGIZE VOTERS, THE PARTIES ARE BRINGING IN STARS.

FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA WILL BE CAMPAIGN SOON FOR DEMOCRATS IN CLEVELAND TO FIRE UP HIS BASE, PRESIDENT TRUMP MADE A SECOND APPEARANCE IN OHIO ON MONDAY WHERE HE TRIED TO DOWNPLAY WHAT LED TO HIGH GAS PRICES AND A BUMP IN INFLATION.

FORGES AND THEN WE -- WE STOP OVER IN IRAN AND THEIR WHOLE COUNTRY IS, LET'S PUT THIS THIS WAY, WILL NEVER HAVE A NUCLEAR BEP AND IT WILL END VERY SOON AN AND WHEN IT ENDS YOUR GASOLINE COMES DOWN.

REMEMBER YOUR GAS PRICES ARE LOWER THAN WHEN BIDEN WAS PRESIDENT AND HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IRAN, THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN, DIDN'T DO ANYTHING.

>> TO TALK ABOUT THAT LITTLE STOPOVER IN IRAN THAT IS HAVING A BIG IMPANEL, OUR PANEL, JESSIE BALMERT FROM THE "USA TODAY" OHIO NETWORKS BOB CLEGG AND STANLEY GATES.

BOB, STARTING WITH YOU.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING?

IS DONALD TRUMP REALLY ENERGIZING REPUBLICANS IN OHIO IN HIS BASE IN PARTICULAR?

>> WELL, YEAH.

AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ASK ME, DO YOU WANT HIM IN OHIO?

I AM TELLING YOU THE PEOPLE THAT REALLY HATE DONALD TRUMP ARE ALREADY MOTIVATED.

SO THOSE PEOPLE CAN'T BE MOTIVATED ANY MORE BY HIM COMING IN.

WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT REPUBLICANS DO SHOW UP.

IF THEY SHOW UP, WE ARE GOING TO WIN BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT MORE REPUBLICANS NOW IN OHIO THAN THERE ARE DEMOCRATS.

WE SAW THAT THE PRIMARY WHERE WE HAD OVER 91,000 MORE REPUBLICANS VOTING IN THE PRIMARY THAN DEMOCRATS.

AND THAT'S THE KEY FOR US.

WE JUST GOT TO GET EVERYBODY OUT TO VOTE.

>> YOU LOOK AT HIS, THE CROWD SIZE, THE ARENA IN YOUNGSTOWN WHERE HE WAS.

TEN YEARS AGO 7,500 PEOPLE THERE.

YOU KNOW, FOUR YEARSAGES, TWO YEARS AGO, LIKE 5,000.

THIS TIME 3,000.

AND YOU SEE THE CROWD SIZE?

>> HE IS NOT ON THE BALLOT.

IF HE IS ON THE BALLOT AND IT'S A RALLY FOR HIM GETTING ELECTED PRESIDENT THAT PLACE WOULD FILL UP.

BUT IT'S NOT.

IT'S AN OFF YEAR.

THAT MEANS HE IS COMING IN ON BEHALF OF JON HUSTED, VIVEK RAMASWAMY.

THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN TRYING TO SHOW SUPPORT FOR THE GUY YOU ARE VOTING FOR.

>> HOW DO DEMOCRATS COUNTER THAT, STANLEY?

DO THEY KEEP RUNNING AGAINST TRUMP?

DO THEY HAVE TO BUILD ENTHUSIASM FOR THEIR OWN CANDIDATES?

>> THEY ARE BRINGING FOLKS LIKE BARACK OBAMA, WHO WILL BE IN CLEVELAND NEXT WEEK.

SOTY THINK THEY ARE TRYING TO COUNTER BY BRINGING IN THEIR OWN NATIONAL FIGURE.

IT'S GOING TO WORK AND IT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO DRIVE FOLKS TO ACTUALLY VOTE, VERDICT IS OUT ON THAT.

WE ARE SEEING SOMETHING WHERE OHIO HASN'T NECESSARILY BEEN IN MAKE PLAY ON THE NATIONAL SCENE IN A LONG TIME.

FOLKS ARE THINKING ABOUT THIS AND OHIO IS REALLY AT ARE THE HEART OF WHERE SOME FOLKS ARE THINKING THAT THE SENATE CAN CHANGE AND ALSO THE HOUSE AS WELL.

>> CLEVELAND IS KEY TO DEMOCRATIC VICTORY.

TURNOUT HAS BEEN DOWN IN THE CUYAHOGA COUNTY AND CLEVELAND THE PAST SEVERAL CYCLES.

WILL THEY TURN OUT THIS TIME FOR AMY ACTON AND VIVEK AND SHERROD BROWN.

>> TIME WILL TELL.

THAT'S WHY BARACK OBAMA IS GOING TO THE CLEVELAND AREA.

LAST TIME I RECALL HIM COMING WAS IN 2018 FOR RICH, THE GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE.

HE DIDN'T COME THE LAST SEVERAL ELECTION CYCLES.

AT THIS POINT IN THE CAMPAIGN I TRY TO WATCH WHAT ARE THE CANDIDATES DOING VERSUS WHAT ARE THEY SAYING AND THE FACT THAT WE HAVE SO MEN STARS BOTH ON THE RIGHT AND THE LEFT COMING TO OHIO MEANS THIS IS A VERY COMPETITIVE RACE.

>> IT'S ALWAYS VERY DANGEROUS, BOB, TO LOOK AT EARLY VOTING BECAUSE IT'S EARLY.

SO EARLY VOTING IS DOWN ACROSS THE STATE.

IN PERSON EARLY VOTING IN THE FIRST WEEK IS UP IN CLEVELAND AND COLUMBUS HERE.

WHAT DOES THAT TELL SU?

>> WELL, IT CAN TELL YOU A COUPLE THINGS.

THE MAIL REQUESTS ARE DOWN A COUPLE HUNDRED THOUSAND.

SO THE QUESTION THEN IS WHAT'S GOING ON?

ARE PEOPLE JUST SHIFTING FROM MAIL TO IN PERSON?

I THINK WE ARE SEEING SOME OF THAT ON THE DEMOCRATS SIDE BECAUSE I THINK THE MAIL DROP IS BASICALLY DEMOCRATS, NOT APPLYING FOR A MAIL BALLOT.

SO THERE IS SOME OF THAT SHIFTING GOING ON.

I AM ALSO NOTICING THAT THIS EARLY VOTE WHICH TENDS TO BE OLDER ANYWAYS IS REALLY OLDER.

WE ARE LOOKING AT 80% OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE ALREADY VOTED AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, I DON'T KNOW, AROUND 250,000 PEOPLE, 80% ARE 55 PLUS.

AND FOR MY SIDE, THAT'S NOT A BAD THING.

>> SO WHAT SHOULD CAMPAIGNS, WHAT ARE CAMPAIGNS DOING NOW?

THE ADS ARE THE ADS, THEY ARE SATURATED, PEOPLE ARE BASICALLY TUNING OUT AT THIS POINT.

SO GET OUT THE VOTE.

THAT'S THE KEY, STANLEY?

>> COMPLETELY THE KEY AND THAT'S WHY THEY ARE BRINGING IN THE STAR-STUDDED FOLKS.

DEMOCRATS BROUGHT IN GOVERNOR WES MOORE FROM MARYLAND, JOHN LEGEND.

THEY ARE FOLKS AND STARS WE HAVEN'T SEEN SINCE THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS IN 2008, 2012.

SOMEWHAT 2016 WAS AS WELL.

THIS IS A DIFFERENT LEVEL AND FOLKS ARE TRYING TO HOLD THEIR END THE BARGAIN AND GET PEOPLE EXCITED.

WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE TLANS LATES TO VOTES.

>> IS THAT ENOUGH?

DO WE HAVE TO HAVE MORE DOOR KNOCKING AND MAILERS?

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE KEY IS TO GET PEOPLE TO GET OFF THEIR COUCH AND VOTE.

>> HAVE YOU SEEN ENOUGH MAILERS RECENTLY?

WE WILL TALK ABOUT ONE IN THE FUTURE.

YEAH.

I AM ALSO --I KNOW WE --ADS PEOPLE ARE TUNING THEM OUT AT THIS POINT O LOOK WHERE THE MONEY IS BEING SPENT AND YOU SAW LIKE REPUBLICANS ARE SPENDING LESS MONEY IN THE FIRST CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT DOWN IN THE CINCINNATI AREA, FOR EXAMPLE.

WHERE ARE YOU DEPLOYING RESOURCES AT THIS LAST MOMENT AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO THE GOVERNOR'S RACE AND THE SENATE RACE IN OHIO CERTAINLY.

>> WE TALK ABOUT TOP DOWN.

WHAT ABOUT BOTTOM UP?

IF IT'S A COMPETITIVE CONGRESSIONAL RACE, MAX MILLER, FOR INSTANCE, USUALLY FAVORITE TO WIN THIS YEAR, NOT BECAUSE HE WAS DOMESTIC SITUATION, SO IF DEMOCRATS ARE COMING OUT TO VOTE FOR HIM, HIS OPPONENT, THEY WILL VOTE UP U RIGHT?

>> EXCEPT IT'S REALLY HARD TO MOTIVATE PEOPLE TO COME OUT TO VOTE BECAUSE OF A CONGRESSIONAL CAMPAIGN.

I AM SORRY, IT'S JUST --IT'S THE GOVERNOR.

IT'S U. S. SENATE.

THOSE ARE THE RACES THAT BRING THEM OUT.

IT'S KIND OF --I AM ALMOST COUNTER IN INTUITIVE BECAUSE WE ARE IN A MUCH CLOSER POLITICAL RACE IN OHIO THAN NORMALLY, BUT I GET A SENSE THAT TURNOUT MAY BE ACTUALLY LOWER, NOT HIGHER.

NOW, WE WON'T KNOW FOR ANOTHER COUPLE WEEKS.

I GET THIS SENSE THAT BOTH SIDES ARE STRUGGLING TO GET THEIR PEOPLE OUT TO VOTE AND THAT MAKES NO SENSE CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT WE ARE SHOWING CLOSE RACES BOTH ON THE GOVERNOR AND U. S. SENATE SIDE.

>> WITH ALL OF THE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS BEING SPENT ON THE CAMPAIGN, HOW MUCH IS GOING TO GET OUT THE VOTE?

>> I THINK A LOT MORE THAN NORMAL.

I'LL TELL YOU THE THING THAT THEY ARE DOING NOW ARE TEXT MESSAGINGISM CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY TEXT MESSAGES I HAVE GOTTEN BECAUSE I AM A REPUBLICAN VOTER AND THEY HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT I AM OUT TO VOTE WHEN EARLY VOTING STARTED, WHILE IT'S GOING ON, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY I'LL GET ON ELECTION DAY.

I WILL WAIT TO ELECTION DAY TO ACTUALLY VOTE.

>> AS SOON AS YOU VOTE, THE TEXT MESSAGES STOP, RIGHT?

>> NO.

>> THEY DON'T.

SOMETIMES THEY CAN.

>> A LITTLE BIT.

BUT YOU CAN'T ESCAPE ENTIRELY.

>> YEAH.

IF YOU VOTE EARLY, YOU WON'T GET THE MAILERS.

WELL, YOU STILL HAVE TO WATCH THE TV.

ANYWAY, IN THE FINAL WEEKS OF THE CAMPAIGN AMY ACTON REMAINS LARGELY ABSENT FROM LARGE PUBLIC EVENTS.

THE DEMOCRAT HAS REFUSE ODD TO DEBATE VIVEK RAMASWAMY.

SHE HAS DECLINED TO APPEAR AT THE METROPOLITAN CLUB WHERE VIVEK RAMASWAMY SPOKE THIS WEEK.

PROHIBITING VIDEO RECORDING, HAS MADE SEVERAL FRIENDLY APPEARANCES ON MSNOW.

SHE DOING SOME INTERVIEWS.

SHE MET WITH DISPATCH REPORTERS AND NEXT WEEK SCHEDULED TO BE ON WOSU'S ALL SIDES WITH AMY.

STANLEY, I KNOW THE CAMPAIGN STRATEGY BUT SHE IS RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

SHOULDN'T WE HAVE TO SEE HER IN A LARGE PUBLIC EVENT IF SHE IS GOING TO BE THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER OF THIS STATE?

>> IT'S A FAIR QUESTION.

THE VOTERS HAVE TO ASK THAT QUESTION S THAT SOMETHING THAT MAKES THEM VOTE FOR HER OR NOT?

AT THIS POINT WE THINK OF GOVERNOR DeWINE WHO ALSO RAN FOUR YEARS AGO AND HE DIDN'T DEBATE.

THOSE ARE THINGS WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT.

IT'S A FAIR CRITICISM.

I ALSO THINK IT'S THE END OF THE DAY, VOTERS NEED TO DECIDE IF THAT MOVES THE NEEDLE.

>> BHATS THE STRATEGY?

AFRAID SHE WILL MAKE A MISTAKE, A STATEMENT TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT?

>> I THINK KNOWING YOUR STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES.

DR.

ACTON DOES IT WELL WITH SMALL GROUPS.

IT'S BEEN HER STRENGTH.

I THINK ALSO WITH WHAT HAPPENED DURING THE PANDEMIC AND HER BEING ABLE TO COACH AND ALSO BE THERE FOR MANY OF OHIOANS, SHE HAS DONE THAT.

I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING SEEN AND PROVEN.

>> VIVEK RAMASWAMY HAS BEEN CRITICAL OF HER UNWILLINGNESS TO DEBATE, WHEN HE GIVES A SPEECH, HE MENTION ITS SHE IS NOT MAKING PUBLIC APPEARANCES.

THE POLLS HAVEN'T MOVED MUCH.

DO VOTERS CARE?

>> THEY MAY NOT BUT THEY.

> >>.

THERE ARE TWO REASONS YOU DON'T DEBATE IN A CAMPAIGN AND ONE STANLEY POINTED OUT.

MIKE DeWINE WAS SO FAR AHEAD IN 2022 AGAINST NAN WHALEY, HE SAID WHY BOTHER?

THE OTHER REASON IS IF YOUR CAMPAIGN FEELS THAT THE CANDIDATE WILL NOT DO WELL IN A DEBATE.

NOW, I THINK WE KNOW WHICH OF THOSE ANSWERS IS THE, YOU KNOW, ACTON CAMPAIGN.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT BRINGS UP THE QUESTION IS SHE DOING JOE BIDEN BASEMENT CAMPAIGN AND WILL THAT RESULT IN A JOE BIDEN TYPE OF ADMINISTRATION WHERE YOU ARE VOTING FOR SOMEBODY BUT THEN YOU GOT A GROUP OF PEOPLE AROUND THEM THAT YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW THAT'S REALLY GOING TO BE DOING THE RUNNING BECAUSE I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT SHE BELIEVES ON MEN MANY ISSUES BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T SAID.

>> YOU KNOW, THE MEDIA, WE DON'T WANT TO SOUND LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SOUR GRAPES BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT DOING INTERVIEWS OR DEBATES.

WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THESE FOLKS MORE UNFILTERED THAN JUST WATCHING THEIR CAMPAIGN ADS OR SEEING TIKTOK VIDEOS.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TAKES IT TOOK TO GET TO THAT TIKTOK VIDEO.

>> YEAH.

I THINK IT'S BOTH OF THE CANDIDATES BENEFIT TO PROVIDE PUBLIC FORUMS WHERE THEY ANSWER QUESTIONS.

NEITHERFUL THEM HAS BEEN ELECTED TO PUBLIC OFFICE.

RAMASWAMY HAS EXPERIENCE AS A BUSINESSMAN.

OBVIOUSLY, AMY ACTON HAS EXPERIENCE AS HEALTH DIRECTOR.

BUT THESE ARE NOT PEOPLE WHO HAVE TAKEN HARD VOTES, PEOPLE WHO HAVE, YOU KNOW, HAD TO HAVE THEIR POLICIES DISSECTED PREVIOUSLY.

SO I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT.

I THINK AT VARIOUS POINTS I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ASK QUESTIONS OF BOTH CANDIDATES.

SO, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN MEDIA STRATEGY.

>> ACTON IS PLAYING A PREVENT DEFENSE BECAUSE SHE HAS BEEN UP A LITTLE BIT IN THE POLLS, CLOSE, FOR DEMOCRATS IN OHIO THESE DAYS, DOING PRETTY GOOD.

MIKE DeWINE WAS UP BY A LOT.

HE DIDN'T WANT TO TAKE CHANCES.

>> YEAH, BUT IT'S DIFFERENT IN THAT SHE IS LIKE SHE JUST SAID, YOU KNOW, SHE HAS NEVER BEEN IN OFFICE.

SO WE DON'T REALLY KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT HER.

UNFORTUNATELY WE ARE FIND OG OUT ALL OF THE INFORMATION ABOUT BOTH THESE CANDIDATES FROM VARIOUS TV ADS THAT SOMETIMES PORTRAY IN A GOOD LIGHT A LOT OF TIMES NOT.

CAN WE GO BY EITHER ONE OF THOSE SETS OF TV ADS TO REALLY KNOW THESE CANDIDATES IN I DON'T THINK WE CAN.

I THINK THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN IS IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THEM, THEY ARE ANSWERING QUESTIONS, AND YOU TRY TO GET THEM TO BE AS SPECIFIC AS POSSIBLE OF WHAT THEY WANT TO DO IF THEY ARE ELECTED GOVERNOR.

>> I THINK YOU MENTIONED TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

THERE IS A THIRD THING DOES IT BENEFIT DR.

ACTON IF SHE ACTUALLY DOES THAT DEBATE WITH VIVEK RAMASWAMY AND I THINK THAT THAT'S THE QUESTION FOLKS HAVE TO ASK.

THIS POINT I WOULD SAY IT WOULD BENEFIT HIM MORE.

WHY DO SOMETHING WHEN POMS ARE SO CLOSE -- >> THE BAR WOULD BE SO LOW FOR HER, YOU KNOW?

AT THIS POINT IF SHE DOESN'T, LIKE, FALL OVER AND, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER, SHE'LL COME OUT AHEAD BECAUSE PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO HAVE THAT HIGH EXPECTATION.

I THINK --I THINK SHE IS AN INTELLIGENT WOMAN THAT COULD DELIVER A DEBATE MUCH BETTER THAN I THINK HER OWN PEOPLE THINK.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK?

DEBATES USED TO BE REQUIRED.

IT WAS A GIVEN.

IF YOU ARE RUNNING FOR A BIG OFFICE, GOVERNOR OR PRESIDENT OR EVEN GAES OR A STATEWIDE OFFICE, YOU HAD TO DEBATE AT LEAST ONCE.

NOW IT'S "WHATEVER WILL BE, WILL BE. "

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

THE MEDIA HAS LOST THEIR CLOUT?

IS IT THAT TV AND MONEY HAS TAKEN OVER?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK THERE IS A VARIETY OF FACTORS.

I THINK CANDIDATES WHO WERE UP BIG IN RACES WHETHER THAT BE GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH OR GOVERNOR DeWINE DECLINED TO DO DEBATES.

>> WE ARE NOT HAVE A DEBATE IN THE U. S. SENATE.

ONLY IS THE OHIO ATTORNEY GENERAL CANDIDATES AND GOOD FOR DECIDING TO DO THAT.

BUT I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT MEDIA.

IT'S A LITTLE BIT PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF GETTING THIS CLIP PULLED OUT AND THEY LOOK BAD AND IT'S GOING TO END UP IN AN ATTACK AD.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK THE CHANGE?

>> MEDIA TODAY.

I MEAN, WE CAN GET SO MUCH INFORMATION NOW FROM SO MANY DIFFERENT SOURCES.

JUST THINK BACK, MIKE, TO THE VERY FIRST BIG DEBATE IN OUR POLITICAL HISTORY, WHICH WAS WHAT, 1960?

NIXON/KENNEDY.

I MEAN, YOU HAD THREE TV NETWORKS.

THAT WAS IT.

>> EVERYBODY WATCHED IT.

>> EVERYBODY WATCHED IT.

I MEAN, YOU HAD TO -- NOW IT'S A COMBINATION OF YOU CAN GET A LOT OF DIFFERENT INFORMATION FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT SOURCES AND BUT ALSO YOU CAN TAKE A CLIP OUT AND PUT IT ALL OVER SOCIAL MEDIA AND IT JUST BLOWS IT UP EVEN MORE.

>> AND NOBODY SEEMS TO BE HOWLING FOR THESE DEBATES.

WE IN THE MEDIA HAVE HOWLED FOR THEM.

>> THE PUBLIC IS NOT CLAMORING FOR IT.

>> YOU DON'T NEED TO WATCH.

YOU GET A CLIP AND THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR, LOOKING FOR THE ONE CLIP.

AGAIN I THINK THAT'S WHY DR.

ACTON IS CHOOSING TO NOT TO DEBATE.

>> IN CLOSE RACES, ALTERNATE PARTY CAN MAKE A ASK.

ASK AL GORE ABOUT RALPH NADER.

TWO YEARS AGO, A LIBERAL PAC SPENT $400,000 TO SUPPORT LIBERTARIAN TOM RUSS RUNNING FOR CONGRESS IN TOLEDO.

HE GOT 15,000 VOTES AND DERRICK MERRIN LOST BY 2,000 VOTES TO DEMOCRATIC MARCY KAPTUR.

REPUBLICANS BLAMED THE SPOILER.

THIS YEAR A GROUP IS SPENDING A COUPLE OF $100,000 ON MAILERS TO SUPPORT GREG LEVY IN THE U. S. SENATE RACE.

APPEARS TO BE AN ATTEMPT TO TAKE LIBERAL VOTES AWAY FROM SHARON SHERROD BROWN IN THE CLOSE RACE WITH JON HUSTED.

IT TOOK BREADCRUMB FOLLOWING TO FIND THE TRAIL THAT LED TO THEM THAT INDICATES IT'S A CONSERVATIVE GROUP.

>> YEAH, THAT'S ALWAYS THE WAY.

CITIZENS FOR RAINBOWS AND PUPPIES AND THEN SECRETLY, I DON'T KNOW, AN INDUSTRY THAT YOU DON'T LIKE.

YES.

ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE RACE HAS ARE THIS CLOSE, WHETHER THEY ARE GOING TO PULL A FEW PERCENTAGE POINTS EITHER THE REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE.

I KNOW THE THIRD-PARTY CANDIDATES DON'T LIKE BEING SEEN AS A SPOILER TRADITIONALLY.

LIBERTARIAN CANDIDATES RIGHT HAND FOR REPUBLICAN SOCIALISTS.

GREEN PARTY PULLED FROM DEMOCRAT T THAT'S NOT 100% A CLEAN LINE.

THERE WAS A REASON WHY REPUBLICANS WOULD PERHAPS WANT TO PROMOTE A SOCIALIST CANDIDATE.

>> DIRTY TRICKS?

>> PERFECTLY LEGAL.

>> IT IS.

>> AND NOTHING REALLY --THIS IS A VERY NICE LITTLE MAILER.

>> I LIKE IT.

>> WELL DONE.

SO DIRTY TRICKS.

IS IT A LITTLE UNFAIR.

BUT IT'S REALLY KIND OF UNDERHAND INSIDE A WAY.

>> IT IS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, BOTH SIDES DO IT.

I MEAN I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES THE DEMOCRATS HAVE TAKEN THE GREEN PARTY TO COURT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT THEIR CANDIDATE ON THE PRESIDENTIAL BALLOT IN VARIOUS STATES.

SO I MEAN, IT GOES ON.

IT'S PART OF POLITICS.

IT'S PROBABLY NOT THE BEST OF POLITICS, BUT THAT'S KIND OF HARD TO FIND ANYWAYS.

SO I THINK SINCE BOTH SIDES ARE DOING IT, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT TO KIND OF LET IT HAPPEN.

>> HOW WORRIED ARE DEMOCRATS ABOUT A SOCIALIST CANDIDATE TAKING AWAY VOTES FROM SHERROD BROWN AND HOW MUCH ARE THEY COUNTING ON THE LIBERTARIAN CANDIDATE TAKING VOTES AWAY FROM VIVEK RAMASWAMY?

>> I THINK DEMOCRATS ARE MORE WORRIED.

I SAW A YARD SIGN JUST AROUND THE CORNER ON MY BLOCK.

IT'S A REAL THING.

THAT EXACT YARD SIGN FOR LEVY.

SO IT'S A REAL THING THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT.

ULTIMATELY I THINK THAT WHAT WE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT IS TRANSPARENCY AS IT RELATES TO MONEY IN POLITICS BECAUSE THE FACT WE HAD TO GO THROUGH THESE BREADCRUMBS TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THIS CAME FROM IF IT'S BEHIND A CLOSED DOOR OF ANOTHER PARTY TRYING TO INFLUENCE THE WAY THE ELECTION IS WORKING THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT IS THE TRANSPARENCY AND POLITICS.

>> WE ARE TALKING POLLS.

YOU TAKE THEM WITH A GRAIN OF SALT.

DAWN KISSIC, LIBERTARIAN FOR GOVERNOR, POLLING AT 5%.

MR.

LEVY 4%.

SO NOT A HUGE NUMBER, BUT A CLOSE RACE -- >> COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

LIKE YOU SAID, IT'S A POLL AND TRADITIONALLY GETTING TO ELECTION DAY THAT --THE ACTUALLY PERCENTAGE FOR THESE MINOR CANDIDATES GOES DOWN.

>> HOW SHOULD OR SHOULD THEY -- SHOULD CANDIDATES GO AFTER THESE ALTERNATIVE PARTY CANDIDATES OR DO THEY IGNORE THE MAILERS AND THE ADS FOR THE OTHER GUYS?

>> IF YOU GO AFTER THEM, YOU ARE GIVING THEM MORE ATTENTION.

YOU CAN'T GIVE THESE OTHER --IF YOU THINK THIS CANDIDATE IS HURTING YOUR PARTY'S PERSON, THEN DON'T GO AFTER THEM BECAUSE IT'S JUST GOING TO GET THEM MORE PRINT FROM THE MEDIA.

>> WELL, THEY PLAY A ROLE IN THIS RACE?

>> VIVEK RAMASWAMY HAD AN OPPONENT WHO HAD LIKE 12.

>> 15% IN THE PRIMARY.

THAT'S A DANGEROUS SIGN.

A LIBERTARIAN HAS NOT CAPTURED MUCH OF THAT VOTE ACCORDING TO THE POLLS ME WAKE.

>> I DON'T --I DON'T --THE RACE -- THE RACES FOR BOTH U. S. SENATE AND GOVERNOR WOULD HAVE TO BE SO CLOSE FOR THESE MINOR CANDIDATES TO HAVE A --YOU KNOW, ANY IMPACT ON IT.

AND I DON'T KNOW.

IT MIGHT BE THAT THEY MAY END UP THAT CLOSE.

I DON'T KNOW.

>> I DON'T SEE IT FOR THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

I THINK I DO SEE THE SENATE RACE IS GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT -- ACCORDING TO THE POLLS, THE U. S. SENATE RACE COULD BE A LITTLE BIT MORE DRASTIC IN TERMS OF MARGIN OF ERROR.

BUT I THINK WITH THE GOVERNOR'S RACE FOLKS WILL BE DECIDING BETWEEN VIVEK AND DR.

ACTON.

>> HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO HELP SPOILER.

>> HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO GET YOUR CANDIDATE ELECTED BY USING ANOTHER CANDIDATE, SO, ANYWAY.

>> TALKING $1 BILLION, WHAT'S A COUPLE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS.

AN OHIO APPEALS COURT RULED THE SCHOOL VOUCHER PROGRAM IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

IT ALLOWS ALL OHIO FAMILIES REGARDLESS OF INCOME TO GET TAXPAYER FUNDED VOUCHERS FOR KIDS TO ATTEND PRIVATE SCHOOL.

THE COURT SAID IT VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE IT SETS YOU HAVE A SUSPECT RIT SCHOOL SYSTEM THAT LACKS OVERSIGHT.

THE RULING MAY BE SHORT-LIVED.

APIECE COURT JUDGES ARE ALL DEMOCRATS AND NOW THE CASE MOVES TO THE OHIO SUPREME COURT WHICH IS NEARLY ALL REPUBLICAN.

JESSIE BALMERT, WHAT --THE OHIO SUPREME COURT RULING ON A SCHOOL FUNDED CASE, WHERE HAVE I HEARD THIS BEFORE?

IS THIS SYMBOLIC?

>> I MEAN, IT'S A PART OF THE LEGAL PROCESS AND SO THEY STARTED AT THE, YOU KNOW, THE COMMON PLEAS COURT LEVEL, NOW APPEALS COURT LEVEL, NOW GOES TO THE OHIO SUPREME COURT AND BOTH SIDES KNEW THIS WOULD END UP ANYWAY.

IT'S REALLY A CONVERSATION OR A LEGAL ARGUMENT ABOUT THE OHIO CONSTITUTION REQUIRES WE SET UP A COMMON SCHOOL SYSTEM AND IS THIS EITHER PULLING MONEY FROM THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM OR SETTING UP AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SCHOOL SYSTEM WHERE STUDENTS CAN BE SELECTED VERSUS, YOU KNOW, YOU MUST TAKE EVERY STUDENT AND SO FORTH.

SO THE APPEALS COURT DECISION WAS THESE ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL, WE COULD GET A DIFFERENT DECISION NEXT YEAR FROM THE OHIO SUPREME COURT BUT IT WILL TAKE SEVERAL MONTHS TO GET RESOLUTION ON THIS.

>> TRYING PUT THE POSITIVES ASIDE.

DON'T THEY HAVE A POINT THAT THIS IS A $1.

5 BILLION PROGRAM THAT REALLY DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME OVERSIGHT THAT PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAVE AS FAR AS HOW THE MONEY IS BEING SPENT?

>> I GUESS YOU COULD REMEDY THAT BY HAVING A LEGISLATURE PASS, YOU KNOW, A LAW THAT WOULD REQUIRE, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN BENCHMARKS OR OVERSIGHT OF THIS.

BUT THEY HAVEN'T.

YET.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S --THE U. S. SUPREME COURT SAID WE CAN DO THIS.

U. S. SUPREME COURT.

I MEAN, I THINK THE --YOU KNOW, THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS I WISH THEY WOULD HAVE SPENT ALL THIS MONEY ON LAWYERS ON THEIR OWN PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEMS.

THEY ONLY HAD THREE COUNTIES THEY COULD GO TO TO GET THIS, FRANKLIN, CUYAHOGA AND HAMILTON.

ANY OTHER COUNTY THEY WOULD HAVE FILED THIS IN WOULD HAVE LOST NOT ONLY ON THE COMMON PLEAS LEVEL BUT THE APPELLATE.

LIKE JESSIE SAID, I MEAN, IT WILL GO TO THE OHIO SUPREME COURT AND I THINK THE COURT WILL SAY THAT IT IS CONSTITUTIONAL.

>> HOW DOES --HOW DO THE AVERAGE FAMILIES FEEL?

THESE ARE SCHOOL DISTRICTS VERY MUCH OPPOSED TO THIS PROGRAM, TEACHERS, SOONTS, THEY FEEL LIKE THEY ARE LOSING MONEY, LOSING STUDENTS.

BUT NEGATIVE ADS DENOUNCING SCHOOL CHOICE IN THIS RACE FOR GOVERNOR, I DON'T THINK IT'S A BIG ISSUE FOR FAMILIES AND AVERAGE PEOPLE IN OHIO S IT?

>> IT'S NOT ONLY THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

MAYBE EVEN ALSO, YOU KNOW, FOR THE FOLKS RUNNING FOR U. S. SENATE, OBVIOUSLY.

AT THE SAME TIME, FAMILIES ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW THEY ARE GOING TO MAKE SURE THEIR KIDS GET THE BEST EDUCATION.

SO WHILE YOU HAVE THIS CASE, THE QUESTION IS GOING TO BE THE CONSTITUTIONALITY.

THE STATE HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE ADEQUATE PUBLIC EDUCATION FOR THE NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THESE SCHOOLS ARE AND IF YOU CAN PICK AND CHOOSE WHO ACTUALLY GETS INTO THE SCHOOL, THAT'S A PROBLEM AND WE SHOULD MAKE SURE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT BECAUSE END THE DAY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT KIDS AND ULTIMATELY A WORKFORCE AS WELL.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET'S GET TO THE FINAL OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

STANLEY.

>> MY TEN-YEARS SINCE I GRADUATED FROM HOWARD UNIVERSITY.

ALL MY FRIENDS ARE HAVING FUN AT HOMECOMING AND I AM PREPARING TO RUN MY FIRST COLUMBUS MARATHON.

I AM CLEARLY HAVING A BETTER TIME.

>> GOOD LUCK TO YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> MAY THE WEATHER COOPERATE.

BOB?

>> IF I COULD DO THIS, I'D LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT A FRIEND OF MINE, LIZ CONNOLLY, RETIRING FROM THE OHIO SENATE AFTER 40 YEARS.

EYE I MEAN, SO MANY TIMES WE CRITICIZE PUBLIC EMPLOYEES.

I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT SOMEBODY WHO IS A GREAT JOB, SHE ALWAYS WORKED HARD, SHE ALWAYS WORKED FOR ALL OHIOANS.

SHE DIDN'T CARE IF YOU WERE A DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN.

I JUST WANT TO THANK HER FOR HER YEARS OF SERVICE AND WISH HER LUCK IN HER RETIREMENT.

>> CONGRATULATIONS TO HER.

JESSIE?

>> THIS WEEK THEY UNVEILED THE OHIO WOMEN'S.

AT THE OHIO STATE HOUSE WHICH THERE ARE NOT A LOT OF STATEHOUSE IT IS THAT HAVE MONUMENTS TO WOMEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

IT'S WORK CHECKING OUT IF YOU ARE DOWNTOWN.

>> ON THE SOUTH SIDE BY THE OHIO THEATER.

WE TALKED ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF TURNOUT THIS WEEK AND HOW IMPORTANT IT IS IN THIS ELECTION.

WELL, WE INVITE YOU TO TURN OUT FOR WOSU'S NEXT POLITICS AND A PINT EVENT.

WE WILL TALK POLITICS WHILE TIPPING BACK A CRAFT BEER, MAYBE TWO.

IT IS THIS COMING WEDNESDAY NIGHT AT EDISON BREWING COMPANY IN GAHANNA.

IT WILL BE A LOT OF FUN AND WE HOPE TO SEE YOU THERE.

WE ASK YOU TO REGISTER AT WOSU.

ORG/EVENTS.

HOPE YOU CAN MAKE IT.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

IT CHECK OUT THE WOSU NEWS, YOUTUBE PAGE WHERE YOU CAN SEE AND SHARE EVERY EPISODE OF THIS PROGRAM.

GO TO YOUTUBE, SEARCH FOR WOSU NEWS AND ALSO WATCH US WHEN YOU WANT AT OUR WEBSITE WOSU.

ORG AND ALSO ON THE PBS APP.

FOR OUR CREW AND OUR PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.