>> WEEK TWO OF TRUMP BRINGS A BIT OF CHAOS TO OHIO.

>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

THE DISRUPTIVE SECOND TERM OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION CONTINUES TO HAVE MANY IN OHIO SCRAMBLING.

MONDAY EVENING BROUGHT A BOMBSHELL MEMO THAT EVERY FEDERAL LOAN AND GRANT PROGRAM WAS FROZEN.

IT APPEARED TO TEMPORARILY CUT OFF FUNDING FOR STATES, UNIVERSITIES, PRIVATE COMPANIES, NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS.

TRUMP'S BUDGET OFFICE SAID IT WAS TO ELIMINATE WHAT IT CALLED WOKE PRACTICES.

ORGANIZATIONS AND STATE OFFICIALS SCRAMBLED TO LEARN WHAT IT MEANT AND TO PREPARE FOR THE CONSEQUENCES.

THEN 24 HOURS LATER, A JUDGE BLOCKED THE MEMO.

A FEW HOURS AFTER THAT, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION RESCINDED THE MEMO BUT INDICATES ITS INTENT REMAINS.

LAUER BISCHOFF, MORE THAN ONE THIRD OF STATE REVENUES COME FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

MY GUESS IS THERE WAS SOME ING GOING ON TUESDAY MORNING AT THE STATE HOUSE.

>> I THINK THERE WAS SCRAMBLING ACROSS THE STATE.

A LOT OF NONPROFITS, I THINK SCHOOL LUNCHES WERE ON THE LINE, SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH LOANS AND GRANTS TO INTEL.

IT REALLY KIND OF PUT INTO STARK RELIEF HOW RELIANT WE ARE ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR THESE FUNDS.

AND I THINK THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WITH THIS FREEZE/UNFREEZE STUFF, I THINK WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS FLEXING ITS MUSCLE AND TRYING TO DELIVER ON A PROMISE TO CUT BACK ON WASTE, FRAUD, AND ABUSE.

THIS WAS MORE OF A SLEDGEHAMMER APPROACH THAN A SURGICAL APPROACH.

>> SO THE CRISIS, IF YOU'RE GOING TO CALL IT THAT, THE SCRAMBLE HAS PASSED.

THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET COMES OUT NEXT WEEK.

ARE THEY DOING CONTINGENCY PLANS FOR MORE FEDERAL CUTS DOWN THE ROAD?

>> I DON'T THINK WE KNOW THAT YET.

BUT I THINK THAT THEY WOULD BE WISE TO MAYBE DIAL THAT BACK A LITTLE BIT.

I THINK IT WAS A -- A FLEXING OF THE MUSCLE AS WE IN THE FIRST TRUMP TERM A SPEEDED UP LESSON IN AMERICAN GOVERNMENT, DEMOCRACY.

EVERYONE'S GOING, WHAT?

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FUNDS HARDSHIP RESEARCH IN AFRICA?

WHAT?

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FUNDS, YOU KNOW, THIS GREAT BIG BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT WE WERE LOOKING FORWARD TO AND JOBS OHIO WAS SCRAMBLING, AND, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE IS WONDERING.

SO I THINK THAT STATES REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF IT.

THEY WERE VERY CIRCUMSPECT WHEN WE ASKED THEM WHAT THEY HAD TO SAY ABOUT IT.

>> BOB, I MEAN, CUTTING GOVERNMENT SPENDING IS GOING TO BE A PRIORITY IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

BUT BY GOING SO AGGRESSIVELY, REALLY UNREALISTICALLY AGGRESSIVELY, DOES THAT HURT THEIR CASE DOWN THE ROAD?

>> I THINK WHAT LAURA SAID IS TRUE.

THEY'RE SENDING A WARNING HERE.

I THINK WHAT EVERYBODY HAS TO STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, NONPROFITS, EVERYBODY THAT RECEIVES FEDERAL FUNDS NEEDS TO TAKE THIS WARNING AND NOT ASSUME THAT YOU'RE GOING TO GET WHAT YOU ALWAYS GOT.

THIS IS THE WAY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WORKS.

EVERYBODY ALWAYS ASSUMES WE KEEP GETTING WHAT WE'VE BEEN GETTING.

IT MAY NOT BE THAT WAY.

AND YOU TALK ABOUT CONTINGENCY PLANS FOR THE STATE, YEAH, THEY BETTER HAVE A CONTINGENCY PLAN BECAUSE THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THEY'RE GOING TO GET THE SAME LEVEL OF FUNDING.

>> FEDERAL SPENDING HAS GONE FROM $4 TRILLION TO $7 TRILLION JUST IN THE PAST EIGHT YEARS.

A 75% INCREASE.

COVID HAD A LOT TO DO WITH THAT.

AGING POPULATION NEEDING MORE MEDICARE DOLLARS HAS A LOT TO DO WITH THAT.

THAT'S A BIG JUMP.

THE SPENDING HAS TO SLOWLY BE CUT AT SOME POINT, RIGHT?

>> SURE.

THAT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD ADDRESS.

IN ORDER TO DO THAT, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT IS THE CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM.

ONE OF THE LARGEST DRIVERS OF FEDERAL SPENDING IS ACTUALLY HEALTH CARE COSTS.

SO YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SOLVE THAT BY JUST CUTTING OFF PEOPLE'S ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE WHO ARE RELYING ON MEDICAID, YOU'RE GOING TO DO THAT BY GOING AFTER A LOT OF THE HEALTH CARE CONGLOMERATES THAT ARE GOUGING US AS TAXPAYERS AND NOT ACCOUNTABLE FOR ANYTHING TO ACCESS QUALITY HEALTH CARE.

>> CONGRESS PASSED THE LAWS, THE CHIPS ACT.

IT'S ADMINISTERED BY THE COMMERCE DEPARTMENT, BUT PRESUMABLY GIVEN THE VAGUENESS OF THE MEMO, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN CUT OFF.

CAN THE PRESIDENT DO THAT UNILATERALLI?

>> NO.

THERE'S A CASE FROM 197 HAD IN WHICH NIXON TRIED TO DO IMPOUNDMENT AND SAY WE'RE NOT SPENDING THIS MONEY.

CONGRESS HAS CONTROL OF THE PURSE AND WHERE THE MONEY GETS SPENT.

SO IT'S --IT IS UP FOR DEBATE.

IF IT'S TRIED AGAIN I THINK WE'LL SEE COURT CHALLENGES.

>> IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE CONGRESS ITSELF IS BEING RELATIVELY DOCILE ABOUT THIS WHOLE THING.

HE HAS, TRUMP HAS PUT SO MANY PEOPLE IN THERE WHO ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF HIM, MANY OF THEM PLEDGED ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL THEY'RE GOING TO SUPPORT HIS AGENDA.

I THINK THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT THIS GOING, WELL, HOW DO YOU NAVIGATE IF THE PRESIDENT DECIDES TO TAKE AWAY THE ENTIRE AUTHORITY OF THE CONGRESS.

>> THAT PUTS REPUBLICANS IN A TOUGH SPOT.

DEMOCRATS ARE UP IN ARMS, NO RISK.

BUT REPUBLICANS CAN'T SAY, WAIT, HOLD ON HERE -- VERY ABRUPT.

>> IT'S GOING TO DEPEND ON EVERY MEMBER'S OWN DISTRICT, HOW IS THIS GOING TO AFFECT THEIR DISTRICT.

THEY DON'T KNOW YET.

I MEAN, THEY HAVE NO CLUE.

IF IT'S GOING TO BE A NEGATIVE, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE SOME REPUBLICANS PROBABLY FIGHT BACK ON IT.

YOU KNOW, THE REPUBLIC WE'RE GOING TO GET INTO HERE ON THE SPENDING SIDE IS THE FACT THAT THE PRESIDENT ALSO IS GOING AHEAD WITH DOING AWAY WITH TAXES NOT ONLY ON TIPS BUT ALSO OVERTIME AND SOCIAL SECURITY, WHICH MEANS EVEN LESS MONEY'S GOING TO BE COMING IN.

SO I MEAN, IF HE'S GOING TO DO THAT, HE'S GOT TO DO SOMETHING ON THE OTHER SIDE.

>> YEAH, THEY'RE SAYING THAT THE REVENUE THAT'S COMING IN FROM THESE PROPOSED TARIFFS IS GOING TO MAKE UP FOR ANY OF THE DECREASE IN REVENUE THAT MIGHT HAPPEN IF WE GET RID OF THE INCOME TAX, FOR EXAMPLE.

AND EVEN EXPERTS THAT AGREE THAT TARIFFS ARE A GOOD THING SAY THAT'S JUST NOT LIKELY TO BE TRUE.

SO YOU KNOW, I THINK THE MAIN IDEA HERE IS TRUMP, I AGREE, IS TRYING TO SEND A WARNING BOTH TO THE RECIPIENTS OF FEDERAL FUNDS AND TO ANYONE WHO MIGHT CHALLENGE HIM THAT HEE CONSOLIDATING EXECUTIVE POWER, HE DOESN'T CARE WHAT THE SUPREME COURT'S SAYING OR WHAT CONGRESS DOES, AND IT'S COVER FOR MAKING SURE HIS FRIENDS LIKE ELON MUSK GET AS MUCH MONEY AS POCK R POSSIBLE OUT OF THE --AS POSSIBLE OUT OF THE GOVERNMENT.

>> IT MAY CLEAR, PROGRAMS GOING TO INDIVIDUALS, MONEY THAT'S GOING DIRECT TO YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY PAYMENT OR YOUR MEDICARE CHECK WERE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ON THE BLOCK.

BUT THEN THE QUESTION IS ALL THESE OTHER PROGRAMS GOING THROUGH COMMUNITY BLOCK GRANTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT WHERE THERE ARE UNTOLD NUMBERS OF WAYS THAT THESE THINGS IMPACT PEOPLE'S REAL LIVES.

>> YEAH.

ONE LESSON IS HOW MUCH MONEY FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS OUT THERE?

AND EVERY WALK OF LIFE.

>> YOU MIGHT NOT SEE IT IN, YOU KNOW, BASIC RESEARCH GRANTS.

THERE'S NO LIKE TANGIBLE CONNECTION TO THAT.

BUT IF YOUR KID IS IN THE LUNCH LINE AND TOLD, SORRY, SCHOOL LUNCH SUBSIDIES ARE OUT, AND -- >> $10 TODAY.

>> YEAH.

THAT'S REALLY TANGIBLE.

>> YEAH.

> >> OUR NEXT TOPIC, IMMIGRATION OFFICERS ARE DETAINING PEOPLE IN OHIO SUSPECTED OF BEING IN THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY.

THE INTENSITY OF THE EFFORT AND HOW MANY HAVE BEEN AFFECTED REMAINS CLOUDY.

NORTHEAST OHIO MEDIA OUTLETS REPORT 20 PEOPLE WERE ARRESTED AT A CLEVELAND HEIGHTS TACO RESTAURANT.

THERE ARE REPORTS OF DETENTIONS IN CENTRAL OHIO, BUT NO HIGH- PROFILE RAIDS.

MORGAN, IT'S HARD TO GET A HANDLE ON WHAT'S HAPPENING BECAUSE I. C. E. WAS DETAINING PEOPLE THROUGHOUT ALL THE PAST 15, 20 YEARS.

NOW IT SEEMS TO BE MORE INTENSE.

>> YEAH.

I DO THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO BE HONEST ABOUT REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOUR PARTY AFFILIATION IS.

THESE TYPES OF RAIDS AND DEPORTATIONS HAVE BEEN HAPPENING FOR SOME TIME.

AND I THINK THE OTHER IMPORTANT POINT IS MOST AMERICANS I THINK DO BELIEVE THAT IF YOU HAVE UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE COMMITTED CRIMES, THAT HAVE HARMED OTHER PEOPLE, THEN THERE'S PROBABLY NOT A PLACE FOR HEM HERE.

THE ISSUE, LIKE THE BLUNT INSTRUMENT, IS THERE IS VERY LITTLE INDICATION THAT THAT NUANCE IS BEING PRIORITIZED IN HOW THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION MIGHT BE PRIORITIZING DEPORTATIONS AND CAUSING FEAR IN THE IMMIGRANT POPULATION.

AGAIN, I DO THINK THIS IS --A LOT OF THESE EFFORTS ARE TRYING TO DISTRACT FROM SOME OF THE BIGGER POWER AND MONEY GRABS THAT ARE HAPPENING EVEN IN THE EARLY DAYS OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

>> THIS IS WHAT DONALD TRUMP PROMISED, BOB, TO GO AFTER THE UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS.

LATEST POLLS OUT SHOW THAT PEOPLE GENERALLY SUPPORT IT, BUT IT'S JUST BEGINNING.

WE'RE HEARING SOME STORIES OF KIDS BEING BROUGHT OVER, BUT THEIR MOM GETTING STUCK BEHIND WITH THIS MORATORIUM.

>> WELL, I MEAN, YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT.

HE CAMPAIGNED ON THIS A LOT.

IT'S AROUND 57%, 58% OF THE POPULATION SUPPORTS IT.

97% OF THE PEOPLE THEY'VE PICKED UP SO FAR WERE PEOPLE THAT HAD DETAINERS FROM THE BIDEN YEARS THAT THEY NEVER DEPORTED.

SO THESE INDIVIDUALS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN OUT OF HERE, AND THEY'RE NOT.

SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE BREAKING NEW GROUND HERE.

WE'RE JUST GETTING RID OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE SHOULD HAVE.

AND LIKE MORGAN SAID, THESE ARE PEOPLE WITH SERIOUS CRIMES.

I KNOW, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY'S CONCERNED ABOUT SCHOOLS, HOSPITALS, THAT HASN'T HAPPENED.

BUT IF THEY NEED TO GO INTO A SCHOOL, THEY'RE GOING TO GO INTO A SCHOOL BECAUSE THEY HAVE SOMEBODY WHO CAME HERE LEGALLY WITH A SERIOUS CRIME.

THAT INDIVIDUAL SHOULDN'T BE IN THE SCHOOL TO BEGIN WITH.

SO THEY'RE NOT GOING AFTER KIDS.

THEY'RE NOT GOING AFTER, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LIKE THAT.

THEY ARE TRYING TO FIND KIDS THAT HAVE BEEN LOST IN THE SYSTEM THAT CAME OVER WITHOUT PARENTS, THAT SOMEHOW THEY GOT LOST.

THEY'RE TRYING TO FIND THOSE.

BUT THEY'RE NOT TRYING TO DEPORT CHILDREN.

>> THE CONCERN IS, THOUGH, THAT YOU'LL SWEEP UP OTHER FOLKS AS PART OF THIS.

PEOPLE WHO -- YOU KNOW, ARE SORT OF I DON'T WANT TO SAY PARTIALLY DOCUMENTED, THEY'VE COME HERE, THEY'VE HELPED LAW ENFORCEMENT SOLVE A CRIME, SO THEY GET A DOCUMENT THAT KEEPS THEM HERE TEMPORARILY UNTIL THE CASE CAN BE HEARD.

>> THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH SANCTUARY CITIES AND STATES IN THAT INSTEAD OF GIVING THE ONE INDIVIDUAL THEY WANT, THEY DON'T, AND THEN I. C. E. COMES IN, THEY FIND THAT INDIVIDUAL, BUT THEN IN THE PROCESS THEY HAVE WHAT THEY CALL THE COLLATERALS THAT ARE JUST INDIVIDUALS THAT MAYBE DON'T HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD, BUT THEY ARE HERE ILLEGALLY.

THEY GET SWEPT UP.

THAT'S THE WAY IT WORKS.

>> YEAH, THE HUMANITY OF ALL OF THIS IS NOT BEING PRIORITIZED IN ANY WAY.

EVEN IF THE INDIVIDUAL THEY'RE LOOKING FOR ISN'T IN THE SCHOOL, THE FACT THAT THIS IS GOING TO HAVE RIPPLE EFFECTS ACROSS FAMILIES IS A REAL BIG CONCERN, AS YOU WERE SAYING, MIKE, FOR EVEN PEOPLE WHO DON'T FIT INTO THE CATEGORY OF HAVING COMMITTED A CRIME.

>> JULIE, WHAT ARE GOVERNMENT AGENCIES, LOCAL GOVERNMENT AGENCIES, MUNICIPALITIES, STATE GOVERNMENT, SCHOOLS, WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO DEAL WITH THIS?

>> WELL, I MEAN, I THINK OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE COOPERATING.

THEY'RE TRYING TO.

BUT I DO KNOW THAT SOME OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS HAVE TRIED TO RE-EMPHASIZE THEIR SANCTUARY STATUS AND TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HERE TO BE A SAFE VEN FOR PEOPLE.

THAT'S GOING TO BE CONTROVERSIAL.

I'VE ALREADY SEEN PUSHBACK THAT THE FRANKLIN COUNTY COMMISSIONERS DID THIS, AND THE --THE -- ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS IS MARRIED TO A CONGRESSWOMAN UP IN AKRON WHO'S TAKING SOME HEAT FROM THAT FOR REPUBLICANS.

SO YOU KNOW, I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO MAINTAIN THE SANCTUARY PROTECTIONS THAT THEY DID TO TRY TO AT LEAST SLOW IT DOWN IF NOT --IF NOT END IT.

BUT CERTAINLY TO JUST MAYBE NOT BE THE BLUNT INSTRUMENT AND THE FAST PACE.

>> MIKE DeWINE WILL BE IN A TOUGH SPOT FOR UNPROTECTED STATUS FOR IMMIGRANTS.

THE ONES IN CLEVELAND TOLD TO LEAVE.

>> HIS DAUGHTER BECKY DeWINE WHO DIED IN 1993 IN A CAR CRASH, THE DeWINES HAVE HELPED FUND AND SUPPORT LIKE A -- A SCHOOL THAT'S NAMED AFTER THEIR DAUGHTER.

AND SO HE'S BEEN TO HAITI, YOU KNOW, TWO DOZEN TIMES PROBABLY.

AND WHEN THE WHOLE CATS AND DOGS NONSENSE HAPPENED AT THE DEBATE, YOU KNOW, HE WAS PUT IN APATION OF DEFENDING LIKE --A POSITION OF DEFENDING LIKE PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE LEGALLY AND LEFT HAITI BECAUSE OF EXTREME VIOLENCE AND HARDSHIP.

SO -- NOW THERE'S A LOT OF BUSINESSES IN SPRINGFIELD THAT RELY ON THESE IMMIGRANTS AS WORKERS.

>> SO IF THEY DO ORDER, THEY ASK THE STATE'S HELP TO SUPPORT THOSE FOLKS.

THAT'S GOING TO PUT HIM IN A TOUGH SPOT.

GETTING TO THAT BUSINESS ANGLE -- >> WHAT?

>> A LOT OF BUSINESSES, YOU KNOW, USE UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS, CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRIES, SERVICE INDUSTRIES.

>> THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO -- >> I KNOW, WITH WITH THAT'S GOING TO HAVE AN EFFECT --ONE OF THE FOLKS HAVE BEEN HERE FOR DECADES WORKING FOR THESE COMPANIES, THEY WILL HURT THE ECONOMY, HURT BUSINESSES.

>> THEN YOU KNOW WHAT WE NEED TO DO, IF THAT'S GOING TO BE SUCH A MAJOR PROBLEM, THEN WE NEED CONGRESS TO CHANGE THE LAW TO ALLOW PEOPLE IF THEY'VE BEEN HERE FOR TEN YEARS ILLEGALLY, BUT THEY'RE WORKING STEADILY AND CONTRIBUTING.

>> DOES HE LEAD THE FIGHT TO DO THAT?

>> I SAID CONGRESS.

>> WELL -- >> NEEDS TO DO THAT.

CONGRESS -- >> THEY -- >> THEY PASS THE LAWS, MIKE, NOT PRESIDENT TRUMP.

>> THE SAME CONGRESS THAT IS AFRAID TO STEP AT ALL OUT OF LINE.

THIS IS THE REALITY OF IT, THIS IS TO PLACATE THE BASE.

DONALD TRUMP'S NOT TRYING TO SOLVE IMMIGRATION PROBLEMS.

I WAS TALKING TO SOMEONE TALKING ABOUT A BUSINESS IN CENTRAL OHIO THAT IS, BY FAR THE MAJORITY OF THE WORKERS, UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS.

THEY SAID, NO, DON'T BOTHER US.

WE WON'T BE ABLE TO FUNCTION AS A BUSINESS WITHOUT UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS.

>> THIS WOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE IF WE HAVEN'T HAD WHAT HAPPENED THE LAST FOUR YEARS.

THAT'S WHAT BROUGHT THIS TO WHERE WE'RE AT TODAY.

YOU CAN'T LET IN EIGHT MILLION -- >> ISN'T THE DEAL ON THE CONGRESS THAT CONGRESS AGREED TO BUT DONALD TRUMP DIABETES.

>> AFTER THEY ALL HAD COME IN.

WHY DIDN'T THEY DO THAT IN JANUARY OF 2021?

>> BETTER LATE THAN NEVER.

>> WHY HE WAIT UNTIL --WHY DID PRESIDENT BIDEN WAIT UNTIL HE SAW IT WAS GOING TO BE A CAMPAIGN ISSUE ON HIS RE- ELECTION CAMPAIGN?

>> ALL OF THAT MIGHT BE TRUE, BUT THERE WAS A DEAL ON THE TABLE THAT WOULD HAVE SOLVED THIS.

AND IF IT WAS SOLVING PROBLEM, IF THAT'S WHAT THIS PRESIDENT IS GOING TO PRIORITIZE, THE IDEAS ARE ALREADY THERE.

THAT WAS NOT PART OF HIS INITIAL MOVES IN THE EXECUTIVE ORDER.

>> THEY HAD CONTROL OF CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENCY FOR TWO YEARS, AND THEY DID NOTHING.

>>.

>> 2025, A NEW TIME.

>> MAYBE THIS TIME WE'LL SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

> >> THERE IS A NEW PROPOSAL TO END THE DEATH PENALTY IN OHIO, BUT THIS TIME SUPPORTERS HAVE LINKED IT TO ABORTION RIGHTS.

A MEASURE PROPOSED BY REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS WOULD END CAPITAL PUNISHMENT AND WOULD PROHIBIT STATE FUNDING FOR ABORTIONS AND ASSISTED SUICIDE.

NOW ASSISTED SUICIDE IS ILLEGAL IN OHIO.

AND LAW PROHIBITS TAX MONEY FROM BEING USED TO PERFORM ABORTIONS.

BUT ABORTION OPPONENTS FEAR THE NEW ABORTION RIGHTS AMENDMENT COULD UNDERMINE THAT FUNDING BAN.

AS FOR THE DEATH PENALTY FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, OHIO DOES NOT HAVE CAPITAL PUNISHMENT RIGHT NOW.

A LACK OF LETHAL INJECTION DRUGS HAS BEEN EXECUTIONS ON HOLD FOR SEVEN YEARS.

AND MIKE DeWINE RECENTLY TOLD REPORTERS THERE WILL BE NO EXECUTIONS WHILE HE'S GOVERNOR.

JULIE, YOU ALLUDED TO THIS, YOU SAID SOMETHING WAS AFOOT.

DOES THIS EFFORT HAVE LEGS TO END THE DEATH PENALTY IN OHIO?

>> I THINK THIS IS ABSOLUTELY FASCINATING.

SO WE HAVE A CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN IN GENE SCHMIDT WHO SAYS AND ADMITS, YOU KNOW, IN 2002 I VICIOUSLY ATTACKED THE PEOPLE WHO WERE CONVICTED OF THESE MURDERS, AND I WANTED THEM TO BE SUBJECTED TO CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.

I'VE CHANGED MY MIND.

AND WE ALL HAVE THE ABILITY TO CHANGE OUR MINDS.

NOW YOU HAVE NICK ANTONIO WHO RUNS THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS IN THE OHIO SENATE.

SHE'S FOR THIS BILL, AS WELL.

NOW IT HAS IN THERE THAT THERE WOULD BE A PROHIBITION ON STATE FUNDING FOR ANYTHING RELATED TO ABORTION.

WHAT HER POINT IS IS THAT'S ALREADY PART OF STATE LAW.

SAME WITH THE PROHIBITION ON ASSISTED SUICIDE.

WHAT THEY'VE DONE IS TRIED TO MAKE A POLICY STATEMENT THAT'S CONSISTENT FOR STATE MONEY SHOULD NOT END LIFE.

AND THE DEMOCRATS ARE ADMITTEDLY TAKING A BIT OF A LEAP AND RISK THAT THEY'RE PUTTING THIS ABORTION THING OUT THERE.

BUT SHE MADE THE POINT THAT, WELL, EVERY BILL WE INTRODUCE CAN BE GUTTED AND AT THE LAST MINUTE CHANGED.

SHE SAID, I'VE HAD TO TAKE MY NAME OFF BILLS I SPONSORED.

THEY'RE GIVING IT A TRY IN A NEW WAY.

>> BUT THIS IS THE -- THE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT OPPOSES ABORTION, OF COURSE, ALSO OPPOSES ASSISTED SUICIDE AND OPPOSES THE DEATH PENALTY.

>> YEAH.

>> SO DOES THIS SATISFY THE -- >> YEAH.

I MEAN, I'M PRO LIFE.

I WAS LIKE JEAN SCHMIDT, I USED TO THINK, THE DEATH PENALTY, WE NEED THAT FOR BAD, BAD, BAD THINGS.

YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU CAN'T BE CONSISTENT IF YOU'RE PRO LIFE AND HAVE THAT.

THE OTHER THING WHICH IS JUST FACT IS THE --THE WAY THE CAPITAL PUNISHMENT WAS DONE OR NOT DONE BECAUSE OF ALL THE DELAYS, COURT CHALLENGES, ALL OF THAT, IT WASN'T EFFECTIVE DETERRENT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.

MOST PEOPLE NEVER WERE EXECUTED, AND IF YOU WERE IT WAS 30 OR LATER.

I FIND THIS INTERESTING THAT, YOU KNOW, NIKKI ANTONIO'S FOR IT IN THE SENATE.

BUT ALLISON RUSSO IN THE HOUSE IS STATE COULD I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT --WHAT HAS GREATER WEIGHT WITH DEMOCRATS.

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT OR ABORTION.

>> WE'LL GET TO THAT.

HOW --HOW DO FOLKS WHO ARE STAUNCHLY IN FAVOR OF ABORTION RIGHTS GREET THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT DOES --AT LEAST SYMBOLIC ALLY PLACE A MORATORIUM ON ABORTIONS?

>> THIS IS TRICKY.

MOST DEMOCRATS AND MODERATELY INDEPENDENTS AND VEERING INTO THE REPUBLICAN PART OF THE COALITION THINK THAT THE DEATH PENALTY SHOULD BE DONE AWAY WITH IN OHIO.

BUT HAVING DEMOCRATS ON RECORD AS SUPPORTING SOMETHING THAT'S AGAINST THE ACCESS TO ABORTION REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS EVEN IF IT'S ALREADY IN THE LAW, I WORRY ABOUT HOW POLITICALLY THAT MIGHT COME BACK TO BITE US.

SO TREAD CAREFULLY.

ESPECIALLY AT THE OHIO STATE HOUSE AS A DEMOCRAT.

>> THE ACLU SAID THIS MIGHT PUT RESTRICTIONS ON MEDICATION ABORTIONS.

I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S THE CASE OR NOT.

GETTING TO MIKE DeWINE, GOVERNOR DeWINE HAS NOT SIGNED OFF ON LACK -- ON EXECUTION, LACK OF DRUGS.

>> HE HINTED HE WILL HAVE MORE TO SAY SOMETIME EARLY THIS YEAR.

HE SAID THAT IN DECEMBER TO THE PRESS.

YOU KNOW, IF OHIO WERE TO GET RID OF THE DEATH PENALTY, IT WOULD BE A MAJOR SHIFT.

WE'VE HAD THE DEATH PENALTY FOR 222 YEARS.

>> A PAUSE DURING THE SUPREME COURT.

THEY PUT IT BACK IN.

>> WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THIS IS --DONALD TRUMP HAS ALREADY SAID HE IS --HE'S ORDERING SOMETHING, AN EXECUTIVE ORDER, THAT HE WILL FIND THE DRUGS FOR THE STATES.

SO THAT'S GOING TO PUT GOVERNORS LIKE MIKE DeWINE ON THE HOOK FOR, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SAYING THAT THERE IS A MORATORIUM THAT RELATES TO INACCESS TO THE DRUGS.

AND HE'S GOING TO REINSTITUTE DEATH PENALTY AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

>> THERE'S ALSO A BILL --I THINK BRIAN STEWART'S GOING TO REINTRODUCE A BILL TO USE NITROGEN GAS TO CARRY OUT EXECUTIONS.

THERE IS A SEGMENT IN THE LEGISLATURE THAT IS PRO-DEATH PENALTY.

> >> FOR MORE THAN A YEAR LAWMAKERS HAVE TOYED WITH THE IDEA OF A LAW THAT LEGALIZED RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA.

A NEW PROPOSAL WOULD INCREASE THE TAX RATE FROM 10% ON SALES TO 15%.

IT WOULD BAN PEOPLE FROM SMOKING MARIJUANA IN PUBLIC, REDUCE THE NUMBER OF ALLOWABLE HOME-GROWN PLANTS FROM 12 DOWN TO 6, AND LIMIT THE POTENCY OF CANNABIS PRODUCTS.

BOB, THIS LAW'S BEEN IN PLACE FOR A YEAR.

I HAVE NOT HEARD OF ANY MAJOR ISSUES.

PEOPLE ARE JUST ENJOYING THEIR MARIJUANA.

IT HAS NOT BEEN A RUSH ON ERs.

WHY CHANGE THE LAW?

>> BECAUSE THEY CAN.

>> I KNOW.

>> ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT THEY'RE GOING DO THIS?

>> THE TAX RATE CHANGE.

THAT'S -- >> YOU KNEW THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

EVERYBODY KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO INCREASE GOVERNMENT SHARE ON THIS.

ONE PROBLEM WE DO HAVE IN THIS FIRST YEAR THAT WE'VE DONE IT, WE'RE NOT REALLY COMPETITIVE PRICE-WISE TO LIKE MICHIGAN.

YOU KNOW, THEY'RE STILL UNDER US ON - -THAT'S A PROBLEM BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE JUST GOING TO CROSS THE STATE LINES TO GO THERE.

>> SO INCREASING THE TAXES ARE GOING TO MAKE YOU LESS COMPETITIVE.

>> BOOM.

YOU GOT IT.

I MEAN --FROM THE BEGINNING, HOW LONG HAVE WE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS?

FROM THE BEGINNING, OHIO HAS BEEN DRAGGED KICKING AND SCREAMING INTO THE MARIJUANA WORLD.

WHETHER IT WAS MEDICAL OR RECREATIONAL.

AND YOU KNOW, THIS IS JUST PART OF IT.

>> OHIO WASN'T DRAGGED.

THE LAWMAKERS WERE DRAGGED.

>> YEAH.

>> WELL -- >> THE GOVERNMENT OF OHIO WAS DRAGGED.

I TRIED IN 2015 WITH AN ISSUE ON THE BALLOT, AND IT WENT DOWN.

I TRIED.

>> I THINK THIS RAISES THE QUESTION OF LIKE RESPECTING THE WILL OF THE VOTERS.

YOU KNOW, THIS -- LIKE GUTTING THE HOME GROW FROM 12 TO 6 PLANS, THAT WAS VERY SPECIFIC PROPOSAL IN THE LAW THAT THE VOTERS SAID, YEAH, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.

>> AND THIS IS SOMETHING ACROSS THE COUNTRY I THINK WE'RE SEEING THE ATTEMPT TO CONSOLIDATE THE CANNABIS INDUSTRY AND HAVE SOME PREFERENCE FOR LARGER COMPANIES THAT ARE GOING TO BE DISTRIBUTING IT VERSUS ALLOWING FOLKS WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN FORMALLY INCARCERATED --FORMERLY INCARCERATED OR HAVE MORE COMMUNITY OPERATIONS BE ABLE TO HAVE THE INDEPENDENCE AND FREEDOM WHICH I THINK IS ONE OF THE VALUES THAT REPUBLICANS IN OHIO CLAIM TO CARE ABOUT SOMETIMES.

TO DO THAT.

AND THE OTHER THING IS, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOURCES OF REVENUE AND MAJOR PROBLEMS IN THE STATE, I AM MUCH MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT'S GOING THROUGH STATE GAMBLING AND ALL OF THE PROBLEMS THAT COULD STEM FROM THAT.

I THINK IT WAS LIKE $300 MILLION IN ONE MONTH SPENT ON GAMBLING LAST YEAR, IN NOVEMBER.

AND I'M NOT HEARING THE SAME UP IN ARMS - - >> ON THAT, TOO, THAT'S WHY THEY'RE NOT GOING TO COMPLAIN.

>> THEY -- >> THEY'RE GETTING THEIR CUT ON ALL KINDS OF GAMBLING.

>> ANY CONCERN, JULIE, THAT LOWERING THE POTENCY, INCREASING THE COST PUSHES PEOPLE TO THE BLACK MARKET TO ILLEGAL SALES?

>> WELL, I'M SURE THAT WILL COME UP.

IT'S APE BRAND- NEW PROPOSAL -- A BRAND-NEW PROPOSAL.

I THINK THAT'S ALWAYS THE RISK.

THE RISK OF LIKE GOING ACROSS THE BORDER AND SORT OF BEGINNING TO GUT THE MARKET THAT WE'VE JUST BEGUN TO BUILD HERE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S DEFINITELY A RISK.

I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT --ONE OF THE ISSUES WITH THE NUMBER OF PLANTS THAT I RECALL FROM THE BALLOT CAMPAIGN WAS THAT, WOW, YOU KNOW, PLANTS CAN GET REALLY BIG.

AND 12 IS A LOT AND 6 IS PLENTY.

YOU KNOW, ET CETERA.

SO THERE -- LIKE BOB SAYS, THEY CAN DO IT, SO THEY WILL.

>> NO ROOM FOR TOMATO PLANTS.

ARE THEY TRYING TO KILL THE INDUSTRY, BOB, REAL QUICK?

THE LAWMAKERS TRYING TO KILL THE POT INDUSTRY?

>> THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO GET IT WAY UNDER CONTROL.

I'LL SAY THAT.

> >> LET'S GET TO OUR FINAL OFF-THE-RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

MORGAN, YOU'RE UP FIRST.

>> THIS WEEK MARKS THE END OF AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSIONER LENA KAHN'S TEN YOU'RE THERE.

ONE OF HER MAJOR PIECES IS TRYING TO BAN NONCOMPETES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THAT IS IN THE COURTS TO DECIDE IF THEY'LL STICK.

WE HAVE HAD TALK OF ALLOWING WORKERS TO CHOOSE WHATEVER JOB THEY WANT TO BE IN.

>> BOB?

>> IT'S NEVER TOO EARLY TO TALK ABOUT 2026 ELECTIONS.

A POLL JUST CAME OUT THIS WEEK FROM A THIRD- PARTY ENTITY DONE BY EMERSON THAT SHOWED VIVEK RAMASWAMY IS PRETTY FAR AHEAD IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY.

HE HAD A LITTLE OVER 50%, I THINK THE NEXT ONE WAS DAVE YOST AT 19.

>> DOES IT HOLD?

>> WE'LL SEE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

JUVENILI?

>> WELL -- JULIE?

>> WELL, WE'RE SAYING GOODBYE TO LEAH LEONARD, A LONG, LONG TIME STATE HOUSE REPORTER AND THEN RETIRED.

BUT HE WAS A REALLY KIND MAN TO ME FROM THE MOMENT I WAS A LANTERN JOURNALIST SHOWING UP AS A STRINGER IN THE ELECTION, 1984.

AND ONWARD.

IT WAS A PRIVILEGE TO ULTIMATELY BECOME HIS COLLEAGUE AND HIS FRIEND.

AND WE'RE GOING TO MISS LAURA?

>> I'LL ECHO THAT.

HE SPENT 35, 36 YEARS AS A LEGISLATIVE REPORTER WHICH IS ANNERSTERNITY.

HE -- AN ETERNITY.

HE REALLY REPRESENTED THE PROFESSION WELL.

HE WAS DOGGED, THOROUGH, WELL RESPECTED.

BUT WHAT I'M HEARING THIS WEEK IS JUST HOW HE WAS LIKE THIS GUARDIAN ANGEL TO THE ROOKEES WHO CAME IN, ME INCLUDED.

WE'LL HIS I.

>> I WILL ACCESS OH THAT.

HE RETIRED BEFORE THIS SHOW AIRED.

HE ONCE APPEARED TEN YEARS AGO TO TALK ABOUT HIS BOOK WITH GOVERNOR RHODES.

HE WAS A LOYAL VIEWER OF THIS PROGRAM AND ALWAYS HAD A KIND WORD ABOUT THE SHOW AND PRAISE COMING FROM LEE LEONARD WAS HIGH PRAISE INDEED.

PEACE TO HIS FAMILY, FRIENDS, AND COLLEAGUES.

> >> THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK, ALSO WATCH US ANY TIME ON YOUR TIME, OUR WEBSITE WOSU.

WOSU.

ORG/COTR.

FOR OUR CREW AND PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.