>>> J.D.

VANCE'S LATEST EFFORT AT DIPLOMACY.

♪♪ WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

PRESIDENT TRUMP AND VICE PRESIDENT J.D.

VANCE MET WITH UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT VOLODYMER ZELENSKYY AT THE WHITE HOUSE TODAY.

IT DID NOT GO WELL.

THE MEETING WAS DESIGNED TO WORK TOWARD A PEACE AGREEMENT IN THE UKRAINE-RUSSIA WAR AND SIGN A DEAL TO MINE RARE MINERALS.

IN AN EXTRAORDINARY SCENE IN THE OVAL OFFICE MEDIA SESSION, IT DEVOLVED INTO A SHOUTING MATCH.

AND OHIO'S J.D.

VANCE PLAYED A BIG ROLE.

>> WHAT KIND OF DIPLOMACY --YOU ARE SPEAKING ABOUT?

WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

>> I'M TALKING ABOUT THE DIPLOMACY THAT'S GOING TO END THE DESTRUCTION OF YOUR COUNTRY.

>> YEAH, BUT -- >> WITH RESPECT, I THINK IT'S DISRESPECTFUL FOR YOU TO COME TO THE OVAL OFFICE AND TRY TO LITIGATE THIS IN FRONT OF THE AMERICAN MEDIA.

YOU GUYS ARE GOING AROUND AND FORCING CONSCRIPTS TO THE FRONT LINES BECAUSE YOU HAVE MANPOWER PROBLEMS.

YOU SHOULD BE THANKING THE PRESIDENT FOR TRYING TO BRING AN END TO THIS CONFLICT.

>> J.D.

VANCE DID NOT MENTION THAT RUSSIA HAS RAIDED JAILS AND NORTH KOREANS TO FIGHT ON ITS SIDE OF THE WAR.

ZELENSKYY LEFT THE WHITE HOUSE, HE DID NOT HOLD A NEWS CONFERENCE WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP, AND HE DID NOT SIGN THE MINERALS DEAL.

BOB CLEGG, IS IT A GOOD LOOK?

>> NO, IT'S NOT A GOOD LOOK.

BUT YOU KNOW, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY STARTED IN ON THIS IN FRONT OF THE PRESS.

AND YOU KNOW DONALD TRUMP.

YOU DON'T DO THAT TO HIM IN FRONT OF A GAGGLE OF REPORTERS.

YOU KNOW, THE --THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE COME IN WHERE THERE WAS MACRON OR STARMER, YOU KNOW, OVER THE LAST WEEK, WEEK AND A HALF, THE OTHER EUROPEAN LEADERS THAT HAVE COME IN HAVE BEEN VERY CORDIAL, AND THEY'VE BEEN DEALING WITH DONALD TRUMP THE WAY YOU SHOULD DEAL WITH DONALD TRUMP IF YOU WANT TO GET SOMETHING OUT OF IT.

ZELENSKYY DID THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

>> BUT IN ZELENSKYY'S DEFENSE HE'S BEEN CALLED A DICTATOR BY DONALD TRUMP.

HE'S BEEN --SAID THAT HE STARTED THE WAR WHERE RUSSIA INVADED HIS COUNTRY.

HE'S GOT MORE OF AN AXE TO GRIND THAN FRANCE.

>> I'LL GIVE HIM THAT, BUT HE HAS TO HAVE THE UNITED STATES OR HE'S NOT GOING TO WIN THIS THING OR EVEN COME OUT IN ANY GOOD SHAPE.

SO YOU'VE GOT TO REALIZE THAT.

I UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATIONS HE MAY BE GOING THROUGH, BUT YOU'RE DEALING WITH DONALD TRUMP AND YOU DON'T DEAL WITH DONALD TRUMP THIS WAY.

>> THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

THAT IS --IT WAS A DESPICABLE DISPLAY ON HIS LACK OF HOW TO DEAL WITH ISSUES IN FRONT OF HIMSELF.

I DON'T CARE WHAT ZELENSKYY SAID, YOU NEEDED TO SHUT THAT DOWN, AND YOU DID NOT NEED TO HAVE AN EXCHANGE.

IT SHOWS THAT HE'S AN AMATEUR.

I'VE BEEN IN SITUATION LIKE THAT A LOT WHERE THE OPPOSITION WANTS TO FORCE YOU TO HAVE A PUBLIC PRESENCE THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO SHOW.

OUR PRESIDENT IS A GANGSTER.

WHEN -- >> A -- >> PLEASE.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK -- J.D.

VANCE WAS THERE.

I DON'T THINK HE WAS THERE WHEN MACRON HAD THE ONE ON ONE IN THE OVAL OFFICE BUT FOR --I DON'T THINK HE WAS THERE WHEN STARMER WAS THERE.

J.D.

VANCE WAS THERE, AND J.D.

VANCE HAS SAID SOME AGGRESSIVE THINGS ABOUT ZELENSKYY AND UKRAINE EVEN BEFORE HE WAS RUNNING FOR VICE PRESIDENT.

IT ALMOST SEEMED THIS WAS A BIT OF A SETUP.

>> YEAH.

>> I THINK HE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER DEALS WERE BEING CUT WERE DEALS THAT WERE GOING TO BE FOR THE BEST OF THE UNITED STATES.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S ALL REALLY WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT HERE.

WHAT'S GOOD FOR THE UNITED STATES.

NOW I THINK IT'S GOOD FOR THE UNITED STATES TO MAKE SURE THIS WAR ENDS AND THAT RUSSIA DOESN'T TAKE OVER UKRAINE, AND I THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP AGREES WITH THAT.

SO I DON'T THINK THAT WAS GOING TO BE THE ISSUE.

THE ISSUE IS HOW DO WE GET THIS BACK ON TRACK.

UKRAINE'S GOING TO HAVE TO --ZELENSKYY'S GOING TO HAVE TO DO SOMETHING BECAUSE I'M TELLING YOU, HE CANNOT GO FORWARD IF IT'S JUST THE EUROPEAN UNION BEHIND HIM.

I MEAN, THEY'VE SHOWN ALREADY THEY ONLY GO SO FAR.

THEY DON'T --THEY DON'T GIVE HIM $175 BILLION -- >> GIVE MORE MONEY -- >> $119 BILLION.

>> I'M SORRY.

>> HAVE GIVEN MORE MONEY IN TOTAL THAN THE UNITED STATES HAS IN TOTAL.

>> BUT THE POSTURE IS HOW YOU HANDLED THIS.

HE IS REALLY PUTIN'S PUPPY.

AND I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU OR ANYBODY ELSE IN THE REPUBLICAN SIDE SAYS, HE'S PUTIN'S PUPPY.

>> WELL --AND --HE'S THE -- >> ALL I KNOW, SAM, IS UNDER TRUMP NOT ONE SINGLE PIECE OF UKRAINIAN LAND WAS TAKEN OVER BY RUSSIA.

OBAMA LET PUTIN COME IN AND TAKE OVER THE WHOLE CRIMEA, DID NOTHING.

>> HOW DOES -- >> WITH BIDEN AND THEY GET A WHOLE CHUNK OF THE COUNTRY?

>> HOW DOES THIS PLAY OUT -- >> NO.

>> BRING IT BACK TO POLITICS.

HOW DOES THIS PLAY OUT?

WE'VE HAD A MONTH WITH --TWO MONTHS, MONTHS AND A HALF OF JUST RAPID- FIRE NEWS, BUDGET CUTTING, LAYOFFS, SHUTTING DOWN OF AGENCIES.

NOW THIS.

BOB, THE FAR RIGHT TRUMP SUPPORTERS ARE GOING TO LOVE THIS.

THE FAR LEFT PEOPLE WHO HATE TRUMP ARE GOING TO HATE THIS.

WHERE DO THE FOLKS IN THE MIDDLE, HOW TO THEY VIEW WHAT HAPPENED TODAY?

BECAUSE WHOEVER WAS AT FAULT, IT WAS NOT A GOOD SCENE.

>> OKAY.

WELL, I'LL SAY TWO THINGS ABOUT THAT.

POINT NUMBER ONE, IF YOU LOOK AT POLLS AND WE CAN ARGUE ABOUT WHETHER POLLS ARE ACCURATE, HIS APPROVAL RATINGS NOW ARE HIGHER THAN THEY WERE AT THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME IN 2017.

NUMBER ONE.

NUMBER TWO, EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN GOING ON RAPID FIRE IS STUFF HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO DO.

AND MORE PEOPLE VOTED FOR THAT THAN THEY VOTED FOR WHATEVER KAMALA HARRIS WAS TALKING ABOUT.

>> WASN'T THAT MUCH, THOUGH.

1.2 -- >> HEY, MORE THAN THE LAST TIME.

HE DENT EVEN GET THAT MUCH AGAINST HILLARY.

>> SAM, HOW DOES --HOW DOES THIS PLAY?

THE LONG RUN?

HOW DOES A MODERATE VOTER -- >> IT APPEARS THAT PERK'S UNDER ATTACK BY --AMERICA'S UNDER ATTACK BY ITS OWN PRESIDENT.

THAT IT'S BEING CANNIBALIZED IN ITS GOVERNMENT, IT IS BEING MADE TO BE EMBARRASSED ON A NATIONAL SCENE.

THAT HE IS ATTACKING OUR ALLIES.

NOTHING IS IN THE OLD WAY OF SAYING AS NORMAL.

HE IS DOING THIS WITH A PURPOSE.

THE PURPOSE --I SIT AROUND WITH MY FRIENDS SOMETIMES AND HAVE A COUPLE OF WHISKEYS TO TRY TO FIGURE THIS OUT.

WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE OF BECOMING A STAR LIGHT OF RUSSIA, WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE FOR US?

HE WANTS TO BE THERE, AND I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU ALL SAY, HE IS.

HE'S TAKEN US TOWARD THAT, AND WE NEED TO START GETTING ANGRY, NOT CAUTIOUS INTELLECTUAL.

HE'S TAKING US IN A DIRECTION THAT HALF OF THIS COUNTRY DOES NOT WANT TO GO TO.

>> SHOULD HAVE COME OUT AND VOTED MORE FOR YOUR CANDIDATE, AND THEY DIDN'T.

SHE WAS A LOUSY CANDIDATE.

>> LET'S JUST FORGET -- >> LOUSY CANDIDATE.

>> GET IT ON.

GET IT ON.

COME ON.

BRING IT.

>> NOW TO OHIO POLITICS.

ALL RIGHT.

VIVEK RAMASWAMY OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED HIS RUN FOR GOVERNOR THIS WEEK WITH RALLIES AROUND THE STATE.

THE WEALTHY ENTREPRENEUR WHO BURST ONTO THE SCENE IN 2023 WITH HIS RUN FOR PRESIDENT NOW WANTS TO SUCCEED MIKE DeWINE.

IN HIS ANNOUNCEMENT, VIVEK RAMASWAMY PROMISED TO GOVERN OHIO AS A NEW GENERATION CONSERVATIVE, BRING A HATCHET TO REGULATORY RED TAPE, AND NOT JUST CUT TAXES BUT ELIMINATE TAXES.

>> WE NEED TO BRING DOWN THE INCOME TAX, EVENTUALLY DOWN TO ZERO BECAUSE YOU DESERVE TO KEEP WHAT YOU EARN.

[ CHEERS ] IT IS YOUR MONEY, NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S.

WE NEED BRING DOWN PROPERTY TAXES IN THIS STATE IMMEDIATELY.

EVENTUALLY DOWN TO ZERO.

[ CHEERS ] IF YOU OWN LAND, IT SHOULD NOT FEEL LIKE IT'S A LEASE FROM THE GOVERNMENT, AND YET SO MANY OHIOANS ARE PAYING AS MUCH IN PROPERTY TAXES AS THEY ARE ON PRINCIPAL REPAYMENTS TO THE MORTGAGE.

THAT IS WRONG AND WILL END ONE WAY OR ANOTHER ON MY WATCH AS YOUR NEXT GOVERNOR.

>> RAMASWAMY DID NOT MENTION HOW HE WOULD MAKE UP FOR THE MONEY THAT ALL THOSE TAXES MAKE, ABOUT 40% OF THE STATE BUDGET.

AFTER THE SPEECH HE GOT WHAT OTHER CANDIDATES HAVE HAD TO WAIT AND WORK HARD FOR -- HE GOT THE IMMEDIATE ENDORSEMENT OF PRESIDENT TRUMP WHICH, AS OF RIGHT NOW, IS A HUGE ADVANTAGE OVER HIS OTHER MAJOR REPUBLICAN OPPONENT, ATTORNEY GENERAL DAVE YOST.

BOB CLEGG, RACE IS OVER.

RAMASWAMY WINS.

GOT THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT.

>> HE'S GOT A BIG STEP UP.

WHAT I FOUND INTERESTING IS I WASN'T AS SURPRISED BY THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT.

I FIGURED THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

I WAS SURPRISED ABOUT THE TIMING.

THIS IS SO EARLY.

I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE EITHER TOWARD THE END OF THIS YEAR OR EVEN POTENTIALLY JANUARY OF NEXT YEAR.

I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE A LOT CLOSER TO THE ACTUAL ELECTION, PRIMARY ELECTION.

IF YOU REMEMBER BACK IN 2022 HE ENDORSED J.D.

VANCE -- I THINK IT WAS LESS THAN A MONTH BEFORE THE PRIMARY ELECTION.

IT WAS REALLY, REALLY LATE.

>> WAS A LITTLE BIT EARLIER -- >> I MEAN, I THINK IT HAS NOT --I THOUGHT THE TIMING HAD MORE TO DO WITH WHAT HAS JUST HAPPENED HERE IN OHIO WITH THE SELECTION OF OUR NEW LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

I THINK THAT WAS MORE OF A --A FACTOR IN THE TIMING THAN DAVE YOST BEING THE OPPONENT.

>> SO HE BRINGS A LOT OF ENERGY, VIVEK RAMASWAMY DOES.

A LITTLE BIT OF -- NO TELEPROMPTER THAT WE COULD SEE IN THE SPEECH.

HE REMINDED ME, HIS ORATORY STYLE, OF BARACK OBAMA.

VERY DIFFERENT POLITICS, DIFFERENT MESSAGE, BUT SORT OF THE SAME KIND OF ORATORY STYLE.

>> THE THING THAT I FIND INTERESTING IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN OHIO THAT IS ALWAYS WAIT YOUR TURN, AND THIS IS NOT A WAIT YOUR TURN.

IT WAS BY ALL STRUCTURAL REASONS, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN YOST'S OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE WE MOVED THE OTHER PERSON TO THE SENATE.

SO IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN YOST'S OPPORTUNITY.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO FLOAT VERY WELL IN OHIO.

THEY DON'T LIKE BEING PUSHED AROUND LIKE THAT.

AND IT WAS MY TURN.

SO WE'LL SEE.

I THINK HIS NAME IS NOT GOING TO FLOAT VERY WELL IN OHIO EITHER.

WHETHER IT'S AS A RESULT OF BIGOTRY OR WHATEVER, I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO FLOAT THAT WELL.

>> OHIOANS DID VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA TWICE.

>> YEAH, BUT THAT'S --THAT'S A DIFFERENT -- PALESTINE VERSUS PALESTINE, YOU KNOW, ALL THAT STUFF.

>> WHAT DAVE YOST SAID, HE ISSUED A STATEMENT AFTER RAMASWAMY LAUNCHED HIS CAMPAIGN AND SAYS I WELCOME MR. RAMASWAMY TO THE RACE FOR HOWEVER LONG HE STICKS AROUND.

WE'LL SEE IF HE STAYS IN.

MR. RAMASWAMY QUIT ON PRESIDENT TRUMP AND ON DAY ONE, HE QUIT ON OHIO AND MOVED HIS COMPANY TO TEXAS, AND HE QUIT HIS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN AFTER A DEVASTATING FOURTH-PLACE FINISH IN IOWA.

SO YOST IS PORTRAYING HIM AS A CARPETBAGGER.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, IT'S PROBABLY --I MEAN, IT'S FACT.

I MEAN --I MEAN HE GRADUATED, THOUGH, FROM WHAT WAS IT, ST. X IN CINCINNATI.

IT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH TO SAY HE'S A CARPETBAGGER AND THAT HE'S LIVED PRETTY MUCH HIS WHOLE LIFE IN OHIO.

THERE'S LITTLE THAT DAVE YOST CAN SAY.

I GUESS IT THAT'S WHAT YOU GOT, THAT'S WHAT YOU GOT.

>> DAVE YOST HAS ONE HECK OF A TRACK RECORD ALL THE WAY FROM THE OFFICE IN COLUMBUS UP TO THE A.G. OF THE STATE OF OHIO.

>> HE DOESN'T HAVE THE ENDORSEMENT OF PRESIDENT TRUMP.

>> SO THAT'S -- >> HE HAS THE EXPERIENCE.

BUT RAMASWAMY, SAM, HAS GOT THIS YOUNG ENERGY, GENERATION, NEW GENERATION OF CONSERVATIVE -- >> SILICON STUFF.

HE MADE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FROM, YOU KNOW, HIS COMPANIES THAT HE STARTED OUT.

>> THESE WHIZ KIDS ARE GOING TO WORK ON ENOUGH PEOPLE --LET ME FINISH - -ENOUGH PEOPLE'S NERVES WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO BE TIRED OF HIM.

HE'S GOING TO HAVE ALL THE WHIZ KIDS HE WANTS.

>> OKAY.

>> WHAT DOES DAVE YOST NEED TO DO, BOB, TO WIN?

>> IT'S A TOUGH ONE.

WHAT WILL BE INTERESTING IS LET'S LOOK AT HIS FINANCE REPORT WHEN HE FILES MID YEAR AND SEE IF FROM THE POINT OF THE PRESIDENTIAL ENDORSEMENT FORWARD WHAT DOES HIS FUNDRAISING LOOK LIKE?

IF IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD, THEN HE'S NOT GOING TO HAVE A LOST OF OPTIONS --LOT OF OPTIONS.

>> RAMASWAMY HAS HIS OWN MONEY.

ON ONE HAND THE 2026 PRIMARY IS 14 MONTHS AWAY.

ON THE OTHER HAND, THE 2026 PRIMARY IS ONLY 14 MONTHS AWAY.

WHEN YOU NEED TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO WIN, IT IS NEVER TOO EARLY TO START, AS WE HAVE SEEN ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

SO WHERE ARE THE DEMOCRATS?

ONLY AMY ACTON HAS DRAYERED HER CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR.

THE FORMER HEALTH DIRECTOR WAITS TO SEE IF SHE WILL FACE A PRIMARY OPPONENT.

AND NO DEMOCRAT HAS PUBLICLY EXPRESS INTERESTED IN CHALLENGING U.S.

SENATOR JON HUSTED TO FINISH OUT J.D.

VANCE'S TERM.

WHERE ARE THE DEMOCRATS?

ARE THEY WAITING TOO LONG?

ARE WE RUSHING -- >> FOR YEARS I'VE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE LACK OF STRENGTH IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY STATEWIDE.

NOW THERE ARE POCKETS OF STRENGTH, AND COLUMBUS IS ONE OF THOSE STRENGTHS.

THEY MAY WANT TO STICK THEIR HAND IN FRANKLIN COUNTY AND GET SOMEONE.

BUT THEY'RE NOT ORGANIZED.

THEY'RE NOT GOOD AT RAISING MONEY.

THEY HAVE NO IDENTITY.

THEY DON'T TRY AND RAISE ANY IDENTITY.

THEY'RE NOT PUSHING ANY ORGANIZATION ACROSS THE STATE.

THAT WHOLE EASTERN PART OF OHIO, THEY DON'T EVEN DO ANYTHING IN THERE.

THEY TRY AND STAY WITH THE URBAN CITIZENS.

YOU GOT TO GO TO THE RURAL COMMUNITIES, AND YOU GOT TO CHIP AWAY AT WHAT THE REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE.

I --REPUBLICANS TO THIS EXTENT, THEY HAVE A VERY DISCIPLINED ABILITY TO GET THEIR PEOPLE TO TURN OUT.

I WISH THE DEMOCRATS COULD DO THAT.

>> ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT AMY ACTON IS NOT MORE VISIBLE?

IT IS EARLY.

IT'S VERY EARLY.

BUT STILL, SHE COULD BE OUT DOING INTERVIEWS AND, YOU KNOW, GETTING HER FEET UNDER HER.

A NEW CANDIDATE, NEVER DONE POLITICS BEFORE.

>> YOU MANY "SHOUT DOWN AMY"?

>> THAT'S WHAT THE RIGHT WOULD SAY.

SOME OHIOANS BACK THE POLICY.

>> SHE'S GOT SOME NAME I.D.

I MEAN, TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF INTEREST IN WHO'S THE DEMOCRAT NOMINEE OF THE PARTY'S GOING TO BE BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN LOSING SO MUCH FOR SO LONG NOW THAT THERE'S JUST NOT A LOT OF INTEREST.

SHE IS -- I'M ON X ALL THE TIME.

SHE'S ON X.

>> OKAY.

>> SHE'S POSTING STUFF ON X.

BUT I'M ASSUMING SHE'S OUT THERE GOING TO DEMOCRAT, YOU KNOW, JEFFERSON WHATEVER THOSE DINNERS ARE, AND THEY'RE --SHE'S DOING -- >> LOW- KEY STUFF.

>> YEAH.

I DON'T --SHE DOESN'T HAVE ANY ABILITY TO GET INTERVIEWS WITH ALL THE TV STATIONS YET.

>> DO YOU --SAM, DO YOU EXPECT ANOTHER DEMOCRAT TO ENTER THE GOVERNOR'S RACE?

DO YOU THINK SHERROD BROWN IS GOING TO RUN THE SENATE RACE?

>> MIKE, EVERYBODY'S PUSHING HIM TO DO THAT.

I'M NOT SURE IF HE WANTS TO DO THAT RIGHT NOW.

I'M NOT SURE IF HE'S INTERESTED IN GOVERNING.

I THINK HE'S INTERESTED IN LEGISLATING, BUT I DON'T THINK HE'S INTERESTED IN GOVERNING.

THAT'S JUST MY SPECULATION.

BUT I --I THINK THIS PROBLEM THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR ME AT LEAST TEN YEARS OF THE PROBLEMS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS TO BE RESOLVED.

WHEN I GOT TO THIS STATE, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WAS IN CHARGE OF EVERYTHING.

NOW IT HAS SOMEONE THE OTHERS WAY.

I CAN ONLY BLAME ITS LEADERSHIP ON ALL LEVELS FOR WHERE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS RIGHT NOW.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>>> THE U.S. SUPREME COURT THIS WEEK HEARD THE CASE OF AN OHIO WOMAN WHO CLAIMS SHE WAS DENIED A PROMOTION BECAUSE SHE IS STRAIGHT.

MARLENE AMES CLAIMS THE OHIO DEPARTMENT OF YOUTH SERVICES DENIED HER A PROMOTION AND THEN DEMOTED HER AND GAVE THE POSITIONS TO LESS QUALIFIED GAY PEOPLE.

IN RECENT DECADES, COURT DECISIONS HAVE REQUIRED A HIGHER BURDEN OF PROOF FOR WHITE PEOPLE CLAIMING DISCRIMINATION.

STATEMENTS AND QUESTIONS FROM THE JUSTICES THIS WEEK SEEMED TO INDICATE A RULING WOULD ELIMINATE THAT HIGHER BURDEN OF PROOF AND SAY COURTS SHOULD TREAT ALL DISCRIMINATION CASES EQUALLY.

SAM GRESHAM, LADY JUSTICE WEARS A BLIND FOLD.

SHOULD DISCRIMINATION CASES BE EVEN ACROSS THE BOARD, OR SHOULD WHITE PEOPLE HAVE A HIGHER BURDEN OF PROOF BECAUSE OF PAST DISCRIMINATION?

>> I THINK YOU CAN TOSS THAT BALL EITHER WAY.

I WASN'T AWARE OF THE HIGHER STANDARD FOR WHITE FOLK AS --TO BLACK PEOPLE.

BUT PRESIDENTS AND DISCRIMINATION IS PREJUDICE AND DISCRIMINATION.

IN MOST CASES LIKE THIS THERE'S A PREDICATE THAT IS A TEST THAT IS DONE PRIOR TO THE COURT CASE THAT SHOWS A PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR.

I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A PREDICATE IN THIS CASE, AND DID IT SHOW THAT WHITE FOLK ARE BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST?

I DON'T THINK --WE'LL SEE.

>> BOB, THIS CASE LIKELY --IT'S ODD FOR THE STATE BECAUSE THEY ARE DEFENDING THE HIRING OF TWO GAY PEOPLE WHICH GOES AGAINST SOME POLICIES THEY'VE PASSED IN RECENT YEARS.

BUT THEY SEEM TO ALMOST AGREE THAT DISCRIMINATION CASES SHOULD BE HANDLED THE SAME NO MATTER WHAT.

>> YEAH.

I THINK THE WHOLE POINT IN THE ARGUMENTS BEFORE THE COURT WAS EVERYONE SHOULD BE TREATED EQUALLY, OKAY.

AND EVEN THE THREE MORE LIBERAL MEMBERS WAS --WERE AGREEING WITH THAT ARGUMENT THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN HAVE DIFFERENT STANDARDS FOR DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

WE SHOULD HAVE THE SAME STANDARDS BECAUSE EVERYTHING SHOULD BE EQUAL FOR EVERYBODY.

AND I THINK TO GET RID OF --YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE IS PREJUDICE OUT THERE.

TO GET RID OF THAT WE GOT TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY IS TREATED EQUAL, AND MEANING IF YOU'RE GAY, IF YOU'RE STRAIGHT, IF YOU'RE WHITE, IF YOU'RE BLACK, IF YOU'RE HISPANIC, YOU SHOULD HAVE EQUAL CHANCE OF GETTING HIRED, AND THERE SHOULD BE NOTHING PUT IN AN OBSTACLE IN YOUR WAY.

>> HOW DO YOU --HOW DO YOU BALANCE THAT, SAM, WITH THE ADVANTAGE OF HAVING A DIVERSE WORK FORCE?

HAVING A DIVERSE MANAGEMENT TEAM?

SOMEONE --SO YOU HAVE PEOPLE OF COLOR, PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT SEXUAL ORIENTATION TO REFLECT THEIR CLIENTS, THEIR CUSTOMERS, THEIR CONSTITUENTS?

>> WELL, LET ME RESPOND TO THAT BY FIRST SAYING YOU HAVE NO OTHER PEOPLE.

YOU HAVE THESE GAY PEOPLE, YOU HAVE BLACK PEOPLE, AND YOU HAVE THESE BROWN PEOPLE.

YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH WHITE PEOPLE TO FILL ALL THE JOBS.

SO YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HIRE SOME OF THEM TO DO THAT.

NOW WHAT I'M LOOKING AT HERE IS YOU'RE SAYING TO ME WHITE PEOPLE, OVER 400 YEARS, HAVE NOT HAD STRUCTURAL ADVANTAGES THAT GAVE THEM AN UP ON PEOPLE OF COLOR, ET CETERA.

THEY HAVE, AND I AM NOT SURE WHEN I GO IN THE ROOM THIS DAY IF THAT STILL DOESN'T EXIST.

NOW OUR LAW DEALS WITH THAT.

WHERE I WAS COMFORTABLE IS THE PREDICATE STUDY.

IF YOU CAN SHOW ME A PATTERN --I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS CASE.

CAN YOU SHOW A PATTERN WHERE IN THIS ORGANIZATION WHITE FOLK OVER A PERIOD OF TIME HAVE BEEN DISCRIMINATED?

AND IF YOU CAN SHOW ME THAT, GOOD TO GO.

>> BOB, THIS -- THIS CASE HAS FLOWN INTO THE RADAR BUT COMES AMIDST ALL THIS, YOU KNOW, FIGHTS AGAINST DEI.

HOW DOES THAT PLAY OUT?

IT'S A NOT IN MOUSESTICIAN, THAT PROBABLY HELPS -- UNANIMOUS DECISION, THAT PROBABLY HELPS CALM A BIT.

>> IF IT'S A UNANIMOUS DECISION AND COME OUT WITH EVERYONE SHOULD BE TREATED EQUAL, THERE SHOULD NOT BE ANY HIGHER STANDARD, LOWER STANDARD, EVERYTHING SHOULD BE EQUAL, I THINK THAT PLAYS INTO THE WHOLE, YOU KNOW, WHY DO WE NEED DIVERSITY, EQUITY, AND INCLUSION IF EVERYONE'S GOING TO BE TREATED EQUAL?

>> THAT'S A LIE.

AND IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

SO I'M NOT GOING TO BUY THAT SPECIOUS ARGUMENT.

THERE'S NEVER A CASE WHERE A BLACK PERSON GOING INTO A ROOM, SOME ATPECTS OF HIS COLOR IS -- ASPECT OF HIS COLOR IS NOT TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION.

I'VE SEEN EVERYTHING TO ZIP CODE TO SCHOOL WHERE THEY GRADUATED FROM AS A WAY OF IDENTIFYING WHO THIS PERSON IS.

I'M GOING TO SAY TO YOU WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO DO THE JOBS WE NEED TO GET DONE.

WE'RE GOING TO NEED THESE PEOPLE, BLACK, BLUE, GRAY, OTHERWISE.

WE MUST FIND A WAY TO INTEGRATE THEM INTO THE EXISTENCE.

SLAVES STARTED THIS COUNTRY, AND PEOPLE OF COLOR WILL SAVE THAT.

>> SAM, NOBODY'S SAYING WE DON'T NEED THEM.

I MEAN, YOU'RE ACTING LIKE THERE'S A BUNCH OF WHITE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT WANT TO KEEP ANYBODY THAT'S OF COLOR OUTSIDE OF -- >> THEY ARE.

THEY ARE.

>> THERE'S SOME -- >> THERE ARE SOME.

AND SOME -- >> WHAT WE NEED AFTER A SHOW LIKE THIS.

>> WHAT?

>> MARIJUANA FOR FUN.

>>> THE SENATE HAS PASSED A BILL THAT WOULD CHANGE THE LAW THAT LEGALIZED RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA AFTER AN ACTION BY LAWMAKERS, VOTERS LEGALIZED MAR MORE FOR FUN IN --MARIJUANA FOR FUN IN 2023.

THE SENATE BILL ON THE TABLE WOULD REDUCE THE POTENCY OF MARIJUANA PRODUCTS, IT WOULD CAP THE NUMBER OF DISPENSARIES AT 350, NO POT SMOKING IN PUBLIC AREAS, HOME GROWERS WOULD BE LIMITED TO SIX PLANTS INSTEAD OF 12, AND NO GIFTING, PLEASE.

AND THE BILL ELIMINATED A SOCIO-EQUITY PROGRAM DESIGNED TO HELP MINORITY GROUPS PENALIZED BY PREVIOUS MARIJUANA LAWS.

ONE THING THE BILL IT NOT INCLUDE IS ANY INCREASE IN THE TAXES THE GOVERNMENT WOULD COLLECT FROM MARIJUANA SALES.

BOB, I ALWAYS GO TO YOU -- >> I KNOW.

I'M THE EXPERT -- >> THESE ISSUES.

>> YES.

>> DO YOU --DO YOU LIKE THIS, OR YOU DO WANT THE FREE MARKET AND THIS CURRENT LAW TO STAND?

>> I MEAN, MIKE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS FOR, WHAT, TEN YEARS?

>> YEAH.

>> AND YOU KNOW, I'VE ALWAYS SAID THIS IS A NEVER-ENDING JOURNEY WHERE I'M WITH MARIJUANA.

THE STATE OF OHIO DOESN'T WANT LEGALIZED MARIJUANA.

I GET THAT, OKAY?

BUT THE REALITY IS WE PASS THIS -- >> 57% - - >> YEAH.

IT'S LAW.

BUT BECAUSE IT'S LAW, EVEN AT THE TIME IT PASSED WE TALKED ABOUT HOW SINCE IT'S A STATUTE IT'S GOING TO BE CHANGED.

AND YOU KNOW, WHY DO WE HAVE ANY LIMITS ON WHAT AN INDIVIDUAL CAN GROW IN THEIR OWN HOME?

YOU KNOW?

BUT NOT ONLY DO WE HAVE A LIMIT THAT WAS IN THE LAW, THEY'VE TAKEN IT DOWN.

>> THEY GROW AND THEN SELL IT, THAT'S WHY --YOU CAN'T EVEN GIFT IT TO YOUR NEIGHBOR UNDER THIS PLAN.

>> YOU KNOW, EVEN THIS FOLLOWS THE THEME OF THE DAY.

THEY TOOK THE PROGRAM THAT ALLOWED PEOPLE OF COLOR TO GET A SPECIAL PROVISION TO GET THE --SELL THE DOPE.

THEY TOOK THAT OUT.

THAT FOLLOWS THE THEME OF THE DAY.

YOU KNOW, WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE - - EVERYTHING THAT IS IMPORTANT TO 50% OF THE UNITED STATES IS BEING THREATENED.

AND THIS MARIJUANA IS A PART OF THAT.

THAT THREAT THAT KEEPS COMING.

YOU'RE GOING TO GET WHAT YOU WANT BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO FEEL THREATENED, AND THEY'RE GOING TO REACT TO THE THREATS THAT THEY SEE THEIR FAMILIES LOSING THEIR JOBS, THEIR --THEIR IDEAS AND BELIEFS BEING CRUSHED, THE COMMUNITIES BEING DESTROYED.

THEY'VE GOT TO RESPOND TO THAT.

>> SAM, YOU DEAL WITH THAT BY --GUESS WHAT --YOU AND YOUR PARTIES GOT TO START WEIGHING -- >> ALL RIGHT.

YOU BETTER TELL YOUR BUDDIES IN THE DEMOCRAT PARTY START WINNING ELECTIONS.

THAT'S HOW THAT CHANGES, OKAY?

>> OR GO TO THE BALLOT AND CHANGE THE LAW THAT WAY.

WHY NO TAXES, QUICKLY?

>> NOT GOING TO RAISE THEM.

THEY'RE DOING IT IN THE BUDGET BILL.

>> OKAY.

>> THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT IN THAT.

>> GOING TO RAISE IS IN THE BUDGET?

>> IT'S GOING TO BE RAISED.

>> AND DISPENSARIES, 350 CAP ON THE MARIJUANA.

>> YEAH.

>> WE DO CAP BOOZE.

SUPPOSED TO TREAT THIS LIKE ALCOHOL.

>> YOU WERE NEVER GOING TO BE EQUAL WITH LIQUOR.

NEVER.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>>> TO OUR FINAL OFF-THE- RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

SAM GRESHAM, YOU'RE UP FIRST.

>> THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY I SELDOM GET.

SHOW SOME OF MY ENERGY -- I THINK WE ARE AT A MAJOR POINT IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES, AND OUR LEADERSHIP BETTER FIND A WAY TO PUT THIS THING BAG TOGETHER OR IT'S GOING TO BUST OPEN ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY.

>> AND BOB?

>> I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT A BILL THAT IS GOING TO BE INTRODUCED NEXT WEEK THAT REQUIRES A COMPUTER SCIENCE COURSE TO BE PART OF THE REQUIREMENT FOR HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION.

ONLY 62% OF THE SCHOOLS IN OHIO OFFER THAT, AND I THINK WE NEED TO BE 99%.

>>> I'LL SAY MENTIONED YOU LIKE TO HAVE WHISKEY WITH HIS BUDDIES.

I WILL TELL OUR VIEWERS, IT GETS HE IS THEED HERE --HEATED HERE, BUT BOB AND SAM ARE GOOD FRIENDS.

THEY ARE CIVIL.

THEY DISAGREE, BUT AFTER THE CAMERA IS OVER, THEY ARE -- >> THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT.

>> MAYBE THESE GUYS WILL ENJOY A WHISKEY NOT TOO FAR DOWN THE ROAD.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD. "

CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK, WATCH US ANY TIME AT OUR WEBSITE, WOSU.

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FOR OUR CREW AND PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.

♪♪