>> COVID'S SHADOW OVER THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

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WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD. "

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

IT HAS BEEN SIX YEARS SINCE THE WORST DAYS OF THE COVID PANDEMIC, WHEN MUCH OF THE WORLD WAS SHUTDOWN.

THINGS HAVE RETURNED TO NORMAL, BUT THE SHADOW OF THE PANDEMIC LOOMS OVER THIS YEAR'S OHIO GOVERNOR'S RACE.

THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE, FORMER HEALTH DIRECTOR, AMY ACTEN, BECAME A HOUSEHOLD NAME AS THE FACE OF THE STATE'S EFFORT TO CONTROL THE SPREAD OF THE CORONAVIRUS.

SHE USED THAT NAME I. D. AND GOODWILL TO LAUNCH HER CAMPAIGN, BUT A LOT OF OHIOANS OPPOSED THE SHUTDOWNS SHE ADVOCATED AND BLAME HER FOR THE ECONOMIC LOSSES AND THE LOSS LEARNING IN SCHOOLS.

REPUBLICAN VIVEK RAMASWAMY ACCUSED HER OF CANCELING ELECTIONS.

BUT AS A PRIVATE BUSINESSMAN, HIS COMPANIES MADE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS DEVELOPING OR HELPING DEVELOP A COVID VACCINE, AND HE PUSHED THE IDEA OF A COVID REGISTRY TO SEPARATE THE IMMUNE FROM THE NONIMMUNE.

BRIAN AUTHALBERING TO AMY ACTEN, SHOULD SHE LEAN INTO HER COVID RECORD, OR SHOULD SHE LEAVE IT OUT THERE AND PUSH IT ASIDE.

>> BOTH OF THEM HAVE A PROBLEM HERE.

FIRST OF ALL WHAT SHE DID, THE GOVERNOR HIMSELF SAID HE WAS THE ONE THAT MADE THE DECISION.

SHE DID LEAVE, BUT SHE LEFT PRIMARILY BECAUSE SHE COULDN'T STOMACH LARRY HOUSEHOLDER'S LEGISLATION, WHICH SHE THOUGHT WAS GOING TO KILL PEOPLE.

AND SHE MADE A DECISION THAT WAS A MEDICAL DECISION THAT SAVED MANY LIVES.

>> BUT SHOULD SHE DWELL ON THAT FOR THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL?

>> WELL, I THINK IF IT KEEPS BEING BROUGHT UP, I THINK SHE NEEDS TO TALK ABOUT WHAT REALLY HAPPENED AND THAT IT IS PARTIALLY MIKE DEWINE, BUT IT IS PARTIALLY, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAD TO BE DONE.

YOU HAD TO MAKE A DIFFICULT DECISION.

NOW, THE RAMASWAMY ONE, I DON'T UNDERSTAND -- I MEAN, YOU WANT TO TAKE PEOPLE THAT HAVE CERTAIN QUALIFICATIONS THAT THEY'RE SAFE AND SEPARATE THEM, AND YOU'RE GOING TO SEPARATE FAMILIES, YOU'RE GOING TO SEPARATE KIDS FROM THEIR FAMILIES.

>> I THINK THEY'RE TALKING MORE WORKPLACES, TRYING TO GET BACK TO WORK.

>> IT JUST WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN WORKABLE.

>> SO HOW DOES RAMASWAMY PLAY THIS?

BECAUSE LET'S LOOK AT THIS POLL.

IT'S A POLL THAT BOWLING GREEN STATE UNIVERSITY DID LAST MONTH.

IT SHOWED MIXED RESULTS.

WHEN ASKED IF ACT N'S COVID SERVICE MADE VOTERS MORE OR LESS LIKELY TO SUPPORT HER, 34% SAID MORE LIKELY, 32% SAID LESS LIKELY, AND 26% SAID NEITHER.

SO BASICALLY IT'S A WASH.

IS THIS TRULY GOING TO BE A FACTOR IN THIS RACE?

>> I DO BELIEVE BECAUSE WE'VE GOT KIDS STILL IN SCHOOL TODAY FROM COVID.

I HAVE A SON THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A FRESHMAN STILL LIVING THROUGH THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THE SCHOOL SHUTDOWNS AND LOCKDOWNS AND WHAT HAVE YOU.

IT'S HER DEFINING MOMENT.

WHEN YOU THINK OF COVID IN MIAMI YOU THINK OF AMY ACTEN.

YOU CAN THINK OF MIKE DEWINE, TOO, BUT HE'S NOT ON THE BALLOT.

AMY ACTEN SHE'S SYNONYMOUS WITH THE COVID, THE SHUTDOWNS OF COVID.

IT'S ALL NEGATIVES, VERY LITTLE POSITIVES, RIGHT, IN THAT.

AND THAT'S THE JOB OF THE RAMASWAMY CAMPAIGN AND OTHERS THAT SUPPORT HIM TO REMIND HIM.

YOU HAVE TO JUDGE TWO PEOPLE BY THE RECORD IN WHO YOU WANT TO BE THE NEXT CEO OF OHIO.

>> BUT 65% OF THE PEOPLE AT --EVEN DURING THOSE WORST DAYS SUPPORTED HER.

IT WAS, YOU KNOW, DEWINE WAS DEWINE, AMY ACTEN EVERY DAY EMPATHETIC VOICE, EMPATHETIC FACE.

FLATTEN THE CURVE, SWISS CHEESE ON TOP OF EACH OTHER.

I MEAN, SHE WAS TRYING TO SAVE LIVES.

>> SHE WAS.

A LOT OF NEGATIVE RAMIFICATIONS.

WHEN WE MOVED FORWARD WE SAW STATES LIKE FLORIDA SAY ENOUGH OF THIS NONSENSE, WE'RE GOING TO OPEN UP.

WE'RE LETTING KIDS BACK IN SCHOOL.

WE'RE GOING TO LET LITTLE JOHNNY PLAY BASEBALL.

AND SHE KEPT SAYING NO, NO, NO.

AND SHE QUIT.

THE WORST THING SHE DID WAS PICK WINNERS AND LOSERS.

THAT IS WHAT VOTERS ARE GOING TO REMEMBER.

>> NOT A LOT OF THAT WAS COMPLETELY HER DECISION.

HE WAS THERE.

HE WAS THE ECONOMIC FACE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC.

AMY ACTEN HANDLED THE HEALTH.

JOHN HOUSTON HANDLED THE ECONOMIC.

WHAT WAS CLOSED, WHAT WAS OPEN.

>> YEAH, I THINK YOU REALLY SAW THEM ON ALMOST, LIKE, OPPOSING --NOT OPPOSING SIDES BUT DIFFERENT ENDS OF THE SPECTRUM ON THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC WITH MIKE DEWINE MAKING THE DECISIONS IN THE MIDDLE, SO MAYBE AMY ACTEN IS ADVOCATING FOR MORE, LIKE, HEALTH RESPONSE.

LIKE YOU SAID ADVOCATING FOR MORE BUSINESS FORWARD RESPONSE.

BOTH OF THOSE ARE SOMETHING TO CONSIDER DURING THE PANDEMIC.

TO YOUR POINT I THINK THIS MEANS WE'RE GOING TO KEEP TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE IT IS HER MAIN RESUME POINT AS FAR AS WHAT SHE'S GOING TO BE JUDGED ONGOING INTO THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

>> BRIAN, TO THE EARLIER POINT IN HINDSIGHT COULD SHE SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, MAYBE WE SHOULDN'T HAVE KEPT THE SCHOOLS AS CLOSED AS LONG AS WE DID?

CAN SHE SAY THAT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL WITHOUT IT BLOWING BACK IN HER FACE?

>> I DON'T THINK SHE NEEDS TO AT THIS POINT.

THE POLLING SHOWS IT'S A DIVIDED PUBLIC ON THIS ISSUE.

AND I THINK THAT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IS RAMASWAMY TRYING TO HANG ONTO THIS BECAUSE HE'S TRYING TO HANG ONTO HIS MAGGA VOTERS WHO ARE VERY DISENCHANTED RIGHT NOW WITH THE ECONOMY AND MANY THINGS LIKE DATA CENTERS, AND I THINK THIS IS HIS SORT OF WAY TO TRY TO KEEP HIS BASE TOGETHER.

BUT IF YOU'RE FIGHTING FOR YOUR BASE, YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE.

>> MIKE, YOU THINK HIS ANIMOSITY TOWARDS AMY ACTEN TO TAP INTO THAT BASE THAT REALLY DOES NOT LIKE AMY ACTEN, DID NOT LIKE WHAT SHE WAS DOING AT THE TIME TO SAY I'M WITH YOU, YOU SHOULD VOTE FOR ME EVEN IF YOU HAVE OTHER CONCERNS ABOUT MY CANDIDACY.

>> I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUE ON THAT POINT.

WE HAD A PRIMARY A WEEK AGO.

VIVEK WON ALL 88 COUNTIES, MOST OF THEM BY 78% OR MORE.

THE BASE IS WITH HIM.

HE DOES NOT NEED TO CAPTURE THE BASE ANYMORE THAN AMY ACTEN NEEDS TO CAPTURE THE DEMOCRATIC LIBERAL PACE.

THEY HAVE THEM.

NOW WE TALK TO TALK TO FRANKLIN COUNTY AND DELAWARE COUNTY AND SAY DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS LIKE FOR TWO YEARS, THREE YEARS, WHICH IT DIDN'T NEED TO BE THREE.

IT COULD HAVE BEEN TWO, AND AMY KEPT DRAGGING IT ON AND ON.

>> SHE LEFT WITHIN SIX MONTHS AFTER COVID STARTED.

>> BUT IT'S HIS RESPONSIBILITY AS A CANDIDATE TO REMIND VOTERS WHAT SHE DID WHEN SHE HAD THE AUTHORITY TO DO HER DECISION.

LOOK, GUYS, THE GOVERNOR CAN SAY ALL HE WANTS, BUT YOU LOOK AT THE ORDERS.

YOU HAVE HER SIGNATURE ON THE ORDERS SAYING I'M CLOSING DOWN VOTING IN 2020.

HER SIGNATURE, HER ORDER.

>> BUT IF PLIEK DEWINE DIDN'T WANT HER MAKING THAT ORDER, WOULD SHE HAVE REMAINED AS HEALTH DIRECTOR?

>> SHE SHOULD HAVE RESIGNED THEN.

>> WOULD HE HAVE FIRED HER.

>> THE THAT'S THE GOVERNOR.

HE DOES A LOT OF EXECUTIVE ORDERS.

THIS IS HER ORDER.

IF THIS IS A PROBLEM, THE GOVERNOR HAS THE ABILITY TO GET RID OF HER.

>> JESSE, WE HAVE SPENT NOW FOUR OR FIVE MINUTES, SIX MINUTES TALKING ABOUT COVID WHEN AMY ACTEN WANTS TO TALK ABOUT AFFORDABILITY.

THAT'S HER STRUGGLE, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

I THINK WHEN YOU SEE HER OUT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL SHE'S NOT LEADING WITH THE VOID 19 PANDEMIC IN PART BECAUSE OF THE CONVERSATION WE'VE BEEN HAVING.

IN PART NO ONE HAS, LIKE, REALLY WARM AND FUZZY FEELINGS ASSOCIATE WOULD THE PANDEMIC REGARDLESS OF WHEN YOU APPROVE OR DISAPPROVE OF HOW SHE HANDLED IT.

IT'S JUST NOT A TIME WE ALL LOOK UPON FONDLY.

AND SO, YEAH, SHE'S TRYING TO FOCUS ON AFFORDABILITY ISSUES.

I THINK THIS IS AN ELECTION WHERE THAT'S GOING TO BE AT THE HEART OF WHAT VOTERS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT, TOO.

>> CAN SHE DO THAT?

HOW DOES SHE DO THAT, BRIAN?

HOW DOES SHE GET TO FOCUS BACK ON WHAT SHE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT, WHICH IS THE COST OF LIVING, HIGH GAS PRICES?

>> I THINK THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE WANT TO TALK ABOUT.

I DO THINK IT'S SIX YEARS IN THE PAST, COVID.

I THINK YOU'RE SEEING THAT THIRD YOU'RE TALKING, THE GREAT VAST MIDDLE THAT HASN'T DECIDED ABOUT COVID ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

THEY'RE NOT INTERESTED IN IT BECAUSE THEY'RE INTERESTED IN THEIR POCKETBOOK.

THEY'RE INTERESTED IN $7 GROUND BEEF.

THEY'RE INTERESTED IN $5 GASOLINE, AND THAT IS WHAT IS GOING TO BE ON THE BALLOT BOX THIS NOVEMBER, WHETHER WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT OR NOT.

WE AS PUNDITS CAN POLL ALL WE WANT, BUT YOUR WALLET IS WHAT IS GOING TO DRIVE YOU.

>> BUT DOES RAMASWAMY RUN THE RISK OF NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ECONOMY AND AFFORDABILITY AND WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO ABOUT IT IF HE KEEPS FOCUSING ON COVID IN.

>> GREAT QUESTION.

I THINK HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO DO BOTH.

I HAVE BEEN TO MANY SPEECHES WITH VIVEK SPEAKING WHERE HE DOES LEAN IN ON AFFORDABILITY.

PEOPLE VOTE THEIR POCKETBOOK.

AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY DON'T CARE WHO'S IN OFFICE.

CAN I AFFORD GROCERIES?

GROCERIES ARE EXPENSIVE RIGHT NOW.

LET'S WAIT.

THE ELECTION ISN'T TODAY.

IT'S GOING TO BE IN NOVEMBER.

HOPEFULLY IT COMES DOWN TO MY PARTY'S SAKE.

THERE'S NOT ENOUGH SPIN IN THE ROOM I CAN GIVE TO KNOW WHAT'S COMING FOR REPUBLICANS IF WE DON'T GET AFFORDABILITY UNDER CONTROL.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THE FUTURE OF OHIO'S NEAR UNIVERSAL PRIVATE VOUCHER PROGRAM IS IN THE HANDS OF THE COURTS.

THIS WEEK A STATE APPEALS COURT HEARD ARGUMENTS FOR AND AGAINST THE STATE'S ED CHOICE PROGRAM.

AT FIRST THE SYSTEM ONLY BENEFITTED LOW INCOME STUDENTS IN POORLY PERFORMING SCHOOLS, BUT IT HAS EXPANDED SO THAT NEARLY ANY STUDENT REGARDLESS OF INCOME ATTENDING ANY PUBLIC SCHOOL CAN QUALIFY.

IT'S POPULAR.

IT COSTS THE STATE MORE THAN A BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

OPPONENTS OF THE VOUCHERS ARGUE THAT MONEY COULD GO AND SHOULD GO TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

SUPPORTERS ARGUE PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE FUNDED PROPERLY, AND THE VOUCHERS ARE PAID FOR WITH OTHER STATE FUNDS.

JESSIE YOU WERE AT THE HEARING THIS WEEK WHERE THIS WAS ARGUED.

THE THREE JUDGES ARE DEMOCRATS, BUT ANY INDICATION WHERE THEY WERE LEANING?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY JUDGES CAN MAKE ANY SORT OF DECISION.

BUT BASED OFF OF THE QUESTIONS THEY WERE ASKING, THEY SEEMED INCLINED TO FIND ISSUES WITH THE VOUCHER PROGRAM.

BASICALLY AT THE HEART OF THIS IS THE OHIO CONSTITUTION GUARANTEES A COMMON SYSTEM OF SCHOOLS AND HAS SOME LANGUAGE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, RELIGIOUS SECTS NOT HAVING CONTROL OVER THAT MONEY OR PROCESS AND SO FORTH.

AND SO THE QUESTION QUESTION IS THIS VOUCHER PROGRAM THAT GIVES SCHOOLS MONEY OR PRIVATE SCHOOLS VOUCHERS IN VIOLATION OF THAT?

THE SUPREME COURT SAID, YES, THIS IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

WE'RE NOW IN THIS MIDDLE STEP.

EVENTUALLY THIS IS GOING TO END UP BEFORE THE OHIO SUPREME COURT WHERE THE BALANCE IS SIX REPUBLICANS, ONE DEMOCRAT.

>> THAT CLAUSE THAT JESSIE MENTIONS SAYS THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WILL SECURE A THOROUGH AND EFFICIENT --WE'VE HEARD THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

BUT NO RELIGIOUS SECT OR SECTS SHALL HAVE ANY EXCLUSIVE RIGHT OR CONTROL TO ANY PART OF THE SCHOOL FUNDS OF THE STATE.

IF YOU'RE GOING PRIVATE SCHOOLS PUBLICLY FUNDED VOUCHERS TO A CATHOLIC SCHOOL, A RELIGIOUS SCHOOL, DOESN'T THAT VIOLATE THE CONSTITUTION RIGHT?

>> NO, HERE'S THE DIFFERENCE.

THIS IS WHAT THE STATE'S HANGING THEIR HAT ON AND I THINK CORRECTLY SO AS A 26-YEAR PRACTICING ATTORNEY.

THE STATE OF OHIO IS NOT GIVING PUBLIC SCHOOLS THE MONEY.

THEY'RE GIVING MONEY TO THE STUDENTS, TO THE PARENTS.

YOU GO WHERE YOU WANT TO GO.

YOU WANT TO GO TO ST.

CHARLES, HERE YOU GO.

YOU WANT TO GO TO A STEM SCHOOL, A CHARTER SCHOOL, NONDENOMINATIONAL OR DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION.

THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO ULTIMATELY PREVAIL.

THEY DID NOT WRITE THIS LEGISLATION TO SAY, HEY, GET INTO A CHRISTIAN SCHOOL, GET INTO A MUSLIM SCHOOL, GET INTO A JEWISH SCHOOL.

GET INTO WHERE YOU WANT.

IF YOUR SCHOOL IS FAILING, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

GET OUT OF A BROKEN SYSTEM SO YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO LEAD A GOD GIVEN PURPOSE RIGHT.

LOOK, THESE BLACK KIDS TRAPPED IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL HAVE A WAY OUT RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S A GOOD THING.

WE SHOULD CELEBRATE THAT.

>> THEY'VE HAD THAT FOR A LONG TIME.

THE ARGUMENT IS THE UNIVERSITY OF IT, THE HIGHER INCOME STUDENTS CAN GO FOR ANYTHING.

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I DO HAVE TO SAY THEY'RE NOT ALL BLACK CHILDREN IN THE COLUMBUS PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT.

LET'S ESTABLISH THAT.

SECONDLY, IF, IN FACT, THAT IS THE CASE, THE CONSTITUTION SAYS YOU CAN GO WHERE YOU WANT TO GO.

YOU SAY YOU CAN CHOOSE BASED ON WHERE THE MONEY GOES.

WELL, IF I APPLY TO GO TO A CATHOLIC SCHOOL AND THEY SAY NO, YOU CAN'T, WE HAVE SELECTIVE ADMISSIONS, YOU CAN'T GO THERE.

IF I'M IN A RURAL COUNTY AND THERE AREN'T CHARTER SCHOOLS AROUND, I CAN'T GO THERE.

IT ISN'T A SYSTEM OF COMMON EDUCATION.

IT ISN'T A FAIR SYSTEM.

AND SECONDLY, YOU KNOW, WE PLAY THIS CAT AND MOUSE GAME WHERE WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A BILLION DOLLARS HERE, IT'S GOING TO GO WITH THE STUDENT.

BUT YET, YOU KNOW, SOME STUDENTS IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, YOU KNOW, GET LIKE RICHMOND HEIGHTS $1,250 PER STUDENT, BUT THEN YOU LOOK AT OTHER PLACES AND THEY'RE GETTING, YOU KNOW, $8 THOUSAND TO GO TO PRIVATE CATHOLIC SCHOOL THAT THEIR PARENTS WERE ALREADY ABLE TO AFFORD, BUT WE JUST DECIDED WE'RE GOING TO GIVE THEM THAT MONEY ANYWAYS.

>> THIS WOULD, IF IT DOES GET TO THE STATE SUPREME COURT, JESSIE, IT'S REPUBLICAN DOMINATED.

YOU HAVE TO FIGURE THE CHANCE OF THE VOUCHER PROGRAM BEING UPHELD IS PRETTY STRONG.

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT'S POSSIBLE.

YOU DID HEAR SOME OF THE ARGUMENTS THIS WEEK THAT ARE TRYING, ALMOST PROJECTING FORWARD TO THAT OHIO SUPREME COURT.

ONE OF THE ATTORNEYS FOR THE PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICTS WERE SAYING WE'RE MAKING AN ORIGINALIST ARGUMENT.

WE'RE STICKING TO THE OHIO CONSTITUTION, WHERE THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE THOUGHT THE LANGUAGE MEANT AT THE TIME WHEN IT WAS WRITTEN, WHICH IS TRADITIONALLY MORE AND MORE CONSERVATIVE, ORIGINALIST THOUGHT PROCESS ON THE COURT.

SO WE'LL SEE.

>> HOW'S THE PROGRAM DOING?

ANY EVIDENCE THAT IT'S IMPROVING EDUCATION FOR THESE KIDS?

>> HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?

>> SORRY, I THINK IT WOULD BE HARD TO KNOW, I AGREE WITH BRIAN THANIMATE.

BUT IF YOU ASK PARENTS WHOSE KIDS ARE NOT GOING TO A FAILING PUBLIC SCHOOL RIGHT NOW THEY'RE SAYING IT'S GOING GREAT.

THERE'S 11.

9 MILLION.

WE CAN'T KNOW OVERALL HOW IT'S DOING.

BUT THERE'S GROUPS OF KIDS NO LONGER IN FAILING SCHOOLS AND THEY CAN GO TO SCHOOL IN A SAFE ENVIRONMENT, THAT'S A WIN.

>> LET'S BE HONEST ABOUT THIS, THOUGH.

WE DO NOT PUT THE SAME STANDARDS ON CHARTER SCHOOLS AND ON PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

WE DO NOT HAVE THE SAME AUDITS.

WE DO NOT WATCH THE MONEY THE SAME WAY.

WE HAVE HAD NUMEROUS EXAMPLES OF PROBLEMS WITH THE CHARTER SCHOOLS AND WHAT PUBLIC MONEY HAS GONE TO AND WHAT IT'S WASTED ON.

WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE WE DON'T TRY TO KNOW.

WE DON'T TRY TO KNOW.

>> THERE ARE TEST SCORES WE CAN MEASURE THAT PRIVATE SCHOOLS, DO WE HAVE THE SAME THING?

>> SURE.

LOOK, CHARTER SCHOOLS AREN'T PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

WE HAVE ACCESS TO THAT INFORMATION.

WE'VE CHANGED THE LAWS IN OHIO TO HAVE MORE ACCOUNTABILITY.

BUT I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, IF YOU'RE GOING TO CHARGE WHATEVER YOUR TUITION IS AND YOU'RE A FAILING PRIVATE SCHOOL, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF CUSTOMERS AT THE END OF THE DAY.

THESE SCHOOLS ARE DOING GREAT.

LOOK AT THE SALES.

>> I THINK THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF STUDIES THAT HAVE SHOWN AND A LOT OF DATA COME OUT THAT AT FIRST THAT'S WAS THE GOAL.

IF YOU'RE IN A FAILING SCHOOL, IF YOU'RE LOW INCOME YOU COULD GET OUT.

YOU COULD GO TO THE LOCAL CATHOLIC SCHOOL AND GET A -- BUT SINCE THE EXPANSION A LOT OF FOLKS IN THE SUBURBS ARE GOING TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS FOR AFFLUENT STUDENTS AND USING THE VOUCHERS TO DO THAT.

>> THEY'RE CAPPED AT $500.

HOWEVER YOU WANT TO DEFINE WEALTH, THERE'S INCOME LIMITS, RIGHT?

SO I THINK MOST FAMILIES SENDING THEIR SCHOOLS TO ST.

CHARLES CURRENTLY, THEY GET $500.

WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT 5, 10, $15,000.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT $500 OF THEIR TAX DOLLARS THEY'VE GOTTEN IN THE PAST.

SO IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A MAKE-OR-BREAK.

>> HOW LONG IS IT GOING TO GET THROUGH THE COURTS, JESSIE, ANY IDEA?

>> I THINK IT WILL BE WEEKS IF NOT MONTHS TO GET A DECISION FROM THIS APPEALS COURT, AND COULD BE A YEAR FROM THE OHIO SUPREME COURT.

ANOTHER ISSUE THAT DID COME UP I THOUGHT WAS INTERESTING WAS THE QUESTION OF WHETHER IF WE TOOK $1 BILLION AWAY FROM THESE PRIVATE SCHOOL VOUCHERS, WOULD THAT NECESSARILY BE SPENT ON PUBLIC SCHOOLS VERSUS SAY AN INCOME TAX CUT OR A BROWN STADIUM OR SOME OTHER THINGS THAT LAWMAKERS MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN?

SO THAT'LL BE ANOTHER ONE TO WATCH IN THAT APPEALS COURT DECISION.

>> ALL RIGHT.

OHIO SOON WILL HAVE A NEW CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.

GOVERNOR DEWINE THIS WEEK APPOINTED ANDY WILSON AS OHIO ATTORNEY GENERAL, TAKING OVER FOR DAVE YOST, WHO WILL SOON RESIGN IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS.

HE'S SERVED IN THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY.

HE'S A CAREER LONG PROSECUTOR.

HE PLAYED A CAREER ROLE IN THE PROSECUTION OF GEORGE WAGNER 4th IN AMOUSKER THAT KILLED SEVEN MEMBERS OF THAT FAMILY.

YOU FOLLOWED THAT CASE PRETTY CLOSELY.

WHAT DID YOU BRING TO THE OFFICE?

>> MY COLLEAGUES AND I DID.

I THINK HE WAS WELL-THOUGHT-OF FOR HOW HE HANDLED THAT CASE.

HE'S ALSO SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN IN GOVERNOR DEWINE'S FEAR OF INFLUENCE FOR QUITE SOME TIME NOW.

A PERSON HE'S REALLY LOOKED TO WHEN HE'S NEEDED SOMEONE TO TAKE ON A TASK.

I WAS THINKING ABOUT SCHOOL BUS SAFETY WAS ANOTHER ISSUE THAT HE TACKLED.

AND SO WHEN WE WERE THINKING ABOUT WHO WAS GOING TO REPLACE ATTORNEY GENERAL DAVE YOST, IS IT GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, MUSICAL CHAIRS OF PUBLIC OFFICIALS?

OR ARE WE GOING TO GO WITH SOMEONE MIKE DEWINE KNOWS PRETTY WELL AND GOING TO TRUST TO BE A CARETAKER FOR THESE COUPLE OF MONTHS?

>> MIKE DEWINE CHOSE A PATH.

>> SHOCKING RIGHT NOW.

IT IS A GREAT PICK.

THE LAW AND ORDER GUY, ANDY HE GOES A MILLION MILES A MINUTE AND WANTS TO DO THE RIGHT THING FOR THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

KEEP IN MIND IT'S GOING TO BE A FAST 7 1/2 MONTHS BECAUSE HE IS GOING TO BE THE CONSTITUTIONALLY ELECTED INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE STATE OF OHIO.

AND HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO THEN, YOU KNOW, BALANCE THAT WITH THE FACT THAT THERE'S NO ELECTION OR RE-ELECTION FOR HIM.

THERE'S A TIME LIMIT.

THE HOURGLASS, THE SAND IS GOING.

SO, YOU KNOW, HOW HARD CHARGING WILL HE GO WITH HIS OWN ANDY WILSON AGENDA VERSUS KNOWING THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A HARD STOP COME EARLY JANUARY 2027.

AND INDEPENDENTS BEING --BECAUSE HE IS THE LAWYER OF THE GOVERNOR BUT HE DOES MAKE INDEPENDENT DECISIONS.

AGAIN, WE'RE POLITICAL NERDS.

WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW THIS STUFF CLOSER THAN MOST OTHER PEOPLE.

>> MY GUESS IS HE'S NOT GOING TO GO -- >> CAROL ROGERS DID THIS THING A FEW YEARS AGO.

REMEMBER SHE'D BEEN IN LAW SCHOOL WHEN MARK -- RESIGNED.

I THINK HE'LL BE A BIG CARETAKER.

THERE MAY BE CASES HE HAS TO DEAL WITH.

AND MY ADVICE IF I GAVE ADVICE TO HIM, IS PICK ONE OR TWO THINGS YOU REALLY WANT TO WORK ON AND HAVE SOME FUN WITH THE JOB BECAUSE YOU'RE THE CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OF A GREAT STATE.

>> THAT CASE IS STILL PENDING.

THE CHARGES ARE STILL THERE.

DID HE PURSUE THAT?

DID HE TALK ABOUT THAT?

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE HIGHEST PROFILE CASES THAT IS STILL PENDING HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO WORK ON TODAY.

DAVE YOST SAYS HE EXPECTS THE NEW ATTORNEY GENERAL TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT CASE AND RE- TRY IT, SO I THINK OUR EXPECTATION IS HE WILL RE-TRY IT.

THE QUESTION IS WILL WE HAVE THE SAME WITNESSES, ET CETERA?

WILL HE TAKE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT APPROACH?

HE'LL PROBABLY LEAN ON THE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING THE CASE.

>> AND TIMEWISE, IT MIGHT TAKE LONGER THAN SEVEN MONTHS FOR THAT TO GET TO TRIAL, WHICH IN THAT CASE WOULD BE THE NEW ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHICH WOULD TAKE IT OVER ANYWAY.

>> I THINK IT'S SEPTEMBER OR THE FALL, SO WE'LL SEE.

THINGS CAN ALWAYS GET CONTINUED IN COURT.

>> THERE WAS SOME ESPECULATION, MIKE, THE GOVERNOR MIGHT ELECT KEITH FABER WHO WAS RUNNING FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL AS AUDITOR, BUT THAT WOULD HAVE CAUSED SOME PROBLEMS.

I DIDN'T THINK THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> I THINK IT WOULD HAVE TURNED OFF THE VOTING PUBLIC BECAUSE DEMOCRAT AND LIBERALS BECAUSE THERE'S AN ELECTION.

WE DON'T WANT TO APPOINT PEOPLE.

AND I THINK KEITH TO HIS CREDIT PUSHED BACK AND SAID, NO, I'VE GOT A JOB TO DO THAT THE VOTERS ELECTED ME TO DO AND I'M IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS MEDICAID ISSUE RIGHT NOW.

I WOULDN'T WANT THE APPOINTMENT IF THE GOVERNOR OFFERED IT TO ME BECAUSE I WANT TO EARN THEIR VOTE, WHICH I THINK HE WILL EWILL.

I'M GLAD THE GOVERNOR DIDN'T FLOAT THAT OUT THERE AS A MUSICAL CHAIRS THING.

AND I'M GLAD HE SAID, IF ASKED, I DON'T WANT IT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THERE'S BEEN SEVERAL NEW DEVELOPMENTS IN THE RICHARD STRAUS SCANDAL OF OHIO STATE.

STRAUS IS THE DOCTOR WHO SEXUALLY ABUSED SCORES IN THE 1980s AND '90 s. STRAUS VICTIMS ACCUSED OSU OF COVERING UP FOR YEARS.

30 TO 40 FOOTBALL PLAYERS HAVE COME TO JOIN THE LAWSUIT.

ANDY GEIGER IN A DEPOSITION SAID FORMER WRESTLING COACH AND CURRENT CONGRESSMAN JIM JORDAN LIKELY KNEW ABOUT THE ABUSE.

JORDAN HAS DENIED THAT.

THE OUTGOING ATTORNEY GENERAL, DAVE YOST, HAS MOVED TO DISMISS CLAIMS BY 77 PLAINTIFF BECAUSE THE ABUSE HAPPENED TOO LONG AGO, ACCORDING TO STATUTES.

MIKE GONIDAKIS, THIS CASE IS WIDENING.

ARE YOU SURPRISED OSU HASN'T SERIOUSLY TRIED TO SETTLE THIS AND GET IT OUT OF THE WAY?

>> YOU KNOW, SOMETHING SURPRISES ME WITH THE PEOPLE THAT RUN OHIO STATE ANYMORE.

I MEAN, THIS IS GUT WRENCHING AND SICK.

THESE YOUNG COLLEGE BOYS, YOUNG MEN WERE RAPED, WERE SODOMIZED, HAD HORRIBLE THINGS HAPPEN TO THEM FOR YEARS AND YEARS, SOME MULTIPLE TIMES.

AND YOU HAD THE LEADERSHIP AT THE UNIVERSITY AT THAT TIME TURN A BLINDS EYE, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, AND HERE WE ARE GOING FORWARD.

AT SOME POINT THE LEADERSHIP OF OHIO STATE HAS TO SIT DOWN AND SAY ENOUGH AND GET THEIR ARMS AROUND THIS.

AND YOU CAN'T UNWIND THE COT, WE CAN'T TAKE AWAY WHAT HAPPENED, UNFORTUNATELY, BUT YOU CAN COMPENSATE THE VICTIMS OF THIS CRIME.

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.

>> NOW, OSU HAS SETTLED 117 OF THESE CASES.

$61 MILLION RIGHT NOW.

BUT AS YOU LOOK AT MICHIGAN STATE, THEY SETTLED THEIR CASES, THE LARRY NASSAR CASE, THE GYMNASTICS COACH FOR $500 MILLION.

MICHIGAN SETTLED ITS CASE WITH ITS SIMILAR CASE FOR $419 MILLION.

$61 MILLION IS A LONG WAY FROM $500 MILLION.

IS THAT WHAT THIS IS, BRIAN, THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY $500 MILLION TO SETTLE IT?

>> I BELIEVE SO.

BUT I THINK THOSE UNIVERSITIES BASICALLY --BECAUSE I WAS UP THERE AT THE TIME SOME OF THESE THINGS HAPPENED.

THEY REALIZE WE HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS, AND WE HAVE TO MOVE BEYOND IT.

AND INSTEAD THIS HAS BEEN A LONG, PAINFUL PROCESS.

I WILL SAY THE OTHER THING THAT HAS COME OUT THROUGH THIS THAT ISN'T TALKED ABOUT A LOT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE -- WE'RE MORE FOCUSED ON THE DAMAGE THAT WAS DONE TO FOLKS, BUT IT SAYS A LOT ABOUT OUR SOCIETY THAT AT LEAST PEOPLE CAN NOW ADMIT IF YOU WERE A FOOTBALL PLAYER OR THE FORMER FIRE CHIEF, WHO ANNOUNCED THIS HAPPENED TO HIM IN HIGH SCHOOL FROM THE SAME DOCTOR -- WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT US AS A SOCIETY THAT THEY COULDN'T COME FORWARD UNTIL NOW?

>> YEAH.

>> AND WHAT CAN WE DO IN THE FUTURE AFTER THIS SETTLEMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT MEN CAN ACTUALLY COME FORWARD WHEN THINGS LIKE THIS HAPPEN?

>> JESSIE, THE NEW PRESIDENT OF OHIO STATE.

YOU NEVER KNOW WITH A NEW PRESIDENT.

IT'S ULTIMATELY UP TO THE PRESIDENT AND THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES, NOT JUST THE PRESIDENT ALONE.

BUT DO YOU SEE --IT SEEMS TO BE GETTING WIDER AND WIDER.

ANDY GEIGER WAS DEPOSED, JIM JORDAN WAS DEPOSED.

GORDON GEE, A FORMER PRESIDENT IS GOING TO BE DEPOSED IF HE HASN'T ALREADY.

IT'S SNOWBALLING.

IT'S SPIRALING.

>> JUST FROM IT EVEN FROM A UNIVERSITY PERSPECTIVE YOU WOULD THINK YOU'D WANT TO GET OUT IN FRONT OF THIS OR IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS JUST THE DRIP, DRIP, DRIP.

AND IT KEEPS ON COMING AND THERE'S AND MORE AND MORE COMING OUT.

AND THIS ISN'T THE ONLY PROBLEM OHIO STATE'S HAD FROM A PR PERSPECTIVE.

IT'S NOT, LIKE, EVEN GREATER RECENTLY.

AND SO I MEAN TO THE EXTENT YOU CAN SOLVE THE PROBLEM, THAT WOULD BE EASIER.

>> BRIAN, I MEAN $500 MILLION IS A LOT OF MONEY.

MICHIGAN AND MICHIGAN STATE BOTH PAID THAT OUT.

DID IT CRIPPLE THOSE UNIVERSITIES?

THEY WERE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO PAY FOR IT, RIGHT?

>> IT SEEMED TO BE DOING FINE.

THEY DO SEEM TO BE DOING FINE.

AND THE ONE THING WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT IS JIM JORDAN, I MEAN NOW THE PERSON THAT WAS HIS BOSS, THE WRESTLING COACH INDICATED HE THOUGHT THERE'S NO WAY HE WOULDN'T HAVE KNOWN.

NOW WE HAVE ANDY GEIGER, THE ATHLETIC DIRECTOR AT THE TIME, SAYING IT.

YOU KNOW, AT SOME POINT JUST LEVEL UP ON THIS.

THIS IS GOING TO CATCH UP WITH YOU.

>> HOW LONG DOES OSU HOLD OUT, DO YOU THINK, MIKE?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN OVER YEARS AGO.

I'VE HAD SOME INTERACTIONS WITH IT BEING A MEMBER OF THE STATE MEDICAL BOARD AND NOT VERY POSITIVE DEALING WITH OHIO STATE.

BUT THEY NEED TO --I'M GOING TO MEASURE MY WORDS HERE.

THEY NEED TO DO THE RIGHT THING NOW, NOT LATER REGARDLESS OF THE FINAL DOLLAR.

THEY'VE GOT TO DO THE RIGHT THING NOW.

>> THEY HAVE ARGUED THEY HAVE SETTLED WITH ALL THESE FOLKS AND $61 MILLION AND OFFERED COUNSELING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT THESE OTHER FOLKS, MANY, MANY MORE ARE STILL OUT THERE.

LET'S GET TO OUR FINAL OFF-THE- RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

BRIAN ROTHENBERG, YOU'RE UP FIRST.

>> THIS IS TO PARENTS OUT THERE.

I'VE TALKED TO THE FIRE CHIEF AROUND, THESE ELECTRIC SCOOTERS, BICYCLES, MAKE SURE YOU WEAR HELMETS.

ACCIDENTS ARE UP 300% THIS PRIOR YEAR.

>> MIKE?

>> DATA CENTERS IN THE NEWS, SHOCKING.

THEY'RE STILL TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS NOT TO FIX THE PROBLEM BUT AT LEAST START ADDRESSING IT.

AT THE END OF THE DAY IT'S STILL A LOCAL ISSUE.

YOU HAVE CLEVELAND REJECT A DATA CENTER BELIEVE IT OR NOT JUST THIS WEEK, AND THERE'S MORE AND MORE MORATORIUMS COMING.

AT SOME POINT THE VOTERS, THE ELECTORATE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TELL THE LEGISLATURE AND OTHER THIS IS WHAT WE WANT AND THIS IS WHAT WE DON'T WANT.

>> JESSIE.

>> MY COLLEAGUES DID A DEEP DIVE INTO THE MASCOT AT OHIO STATE INCLUDING AN INSIDE LOOK INTO WHY HE X'D OUT THE "M" AT THAT MICHIGAN GAME.

>> HE JUST DOESN'T LIKE M'S.

I PREDICT WITH AFFORDABILITY BEING A HUGE ISSUE IN THE CAMPAIGN AND GAS PRICES ARE GOING UP, THIS FRAUD WILL BE THE NEW BANNER THAT THEY WAVE.

INVESTIGATING FRAUD AND ROOTING OUT FRAUD AND MEDICAID AND WHEREVER ELSE, DAY CARE CENTERS WILL BE THEIR MESSAGE GOING FORWARD IN SIX MONTHS.

DOES IT COUNTERACT GAS PRICES?

WE SHALL SEE.

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I'M MIKE THOMPSON, FROM THE CREW, HAVE A GOOD WEEK.

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